What do you do to cure when you feel mentally ill or depressed ?

[hruodr]

The common understanding of mental health is limited to a very specific kind of social class, which is the bourgeoise.

Perhaps specially when it is about "personality health"? We see today a lot of people that can be
called by common sense ill, but are in highest positions.

I met some few times schizophrenic people that take pills and have a (more or less) normal life.
Really intelligent people. In that case we can clearly recognize a health problem and a medicament
that works, a scientific progress.

Depression is a problem of mood (Gemüt), not a mental problem, as also the manic state, and at
some levels and under some circumstances normal. One has to learn to deal with it.
I do not know how good medicaments are in extreme cases, but I met many times people
that suffer depression and take medicaments.

I do not know much on the theme. I read some very outdated books of Ernst Kretschmer, more due
to literary interest. Medizinische Psychologie is on my desktop, it has a very nice description of the dream.

 

[PMc]

It can be viewed as "science" thanks to all the patient studies that have been done during the years and to combat some illnesses these methods and tools have to be applied.
We kind of learnt scientifically in order to treat phobias you have to undergo exposure and response prohibition for it for the illusionary part of the fears to be treated.

And that's called science? I figured that out by myself, when I got annoyed by my phobia.
This one is treated in practically any martial arts or self development school throughout the millennia.

Which gets me to the point: you might wonder why people did scientific study of nature back in ancient Greece or China, but never bothered to study the most at-hand phenomenon, i.e. the mind - all until about 1900 C.E.
Critical thinking should lead to the point that something must be wrong with that. One might then simply assume that in previous centuries people happened to just help each other and therefore didn't need a shrink. That might be plausible, but then one would need to ask if the way we live in our society is indeed wise...

Then, there is something more - there is philosophy. Philosophy, as in old Greece, had the main focus in specfying the personal qualities required of a leader or statesman. (Looking at the politicians of today, it seems we could still use such a science.)
But the actual jackpot here are certain specialized schools for the mind, which have existed since long ago, some as elite schools of martial arts, some as secret orders. A science of the mind did always exist, and it was usually far ahead of what psychology today happens to know, but it was kind of, well, classified.

 

[PMc]

Perhaps specially when it is about "personality health"? We see today a lot of people that can be
called by common sense ill, but are in highest positions.

That's not what I consider the biggest problem. I would rather assume that 95% of the population are what should be termed neurotic. Driven by irrational subconscious fears.
Somebody has researched that the symptoms that a junkie develops on withdrawal, when you take away his junk, and the symptoms that an American develops when you take away his money, are the same.

I met some few times schizophrenic people that take pills and have a (more or less) normal life.
Really intelligent people. In that case we can clearly recognize a health problem and a medicament
that works, a scientific progress.

There is a theory that schizophrenia and enlightenment is basically the same, only the schizophrenic doesn't enjoy the experience. There's a few very inspiring essays by Aldous Huxley, for instance.

and found the th
I do not know much on the theme. I read some very outdated books of Ernst Kretschmer, more due
to literary interest. Medizinische Psychologie is on my desktop, it has a very nice description of the dream.

Hm. I went into comparative religious studies, and found the things perceived from a different angle, but then these are also concerned with the same object of investigations. There can be only one creation all over, and if then we assume that it is possible to describe genuine attributes of the mind, independent of culture or society, then the entire puzzle should be possible to put together - and it would then properly scope full-scale from e.g. medicine to faith-healing.

 

[victort]

+1 for helping others. I listened to a show once where the host shared a study that people who regularly just got up and did something for someone else were less likely (it was a really high percentage) to be really depressed.

Staying busy doing literally anything also helps.

 

[michael_hackson]

And that's called science? I figured that out by myself, when I got annoyed by my phobia.
This one is treated in practically any martial arts or self development school throughout the millennia.

Which gets me to the point: you might wonder why people did scientific study of nature back in ancient Greece or China, but never bothered to study the most at-hand phenomenon, i.e. the mind - all until about 1900 C.E.
Critical thinking should lead to the point that something must be wrong with that. One might then simply assume that in previous centuries people happened to just help each other and therefore didn't need a shrink. That might be plausible, but then one would need to ask if the way we live in our society is indeed wise...

Then, there is something more - there is philosophy. Philosophy, as in old Greece, had the main focus in specfying the personal qualities required of a leader or statesman. (Looking at the politicians of today, it seems we could still use such a science.)
But the actual jackpot here are certain specialized schools for the mind, which have existed since long ago, some as elite schools of martial arts, some as secret orders. A science of the mind did always exist, and it was usually far ahead of what psychology today happens to know, but it was kind of, well, classified.

I think that you are perfectly on point in your reasoning and I follow and can agree.
To answer if it is called science or not I believe the term science stem from things that can be tested and measured/perceived for result, e.g. patient studies of treatment.
Even if it may be obvious for some individuals to puzzle things together (it's often said that they perform well or function high in cognitive),
Psychology as phenomenon/science exists as seen that some or few people actually can manage to treat themselves for mental illnesses.

I like the look back on ancient Greece and China since it is reported a lot of scientific knowledge and practices, for modern use and societal influence.
If I am to guess why they may have not needed a shrink can be due to different culture standards, different societal forms and norms,
different food - in short different affect on our Biology. Say that a schizophrenic person or autistic person could be treated differently
depending on what the cultural norms and societal factors decided. I bet they would experience a lot of challenges also historically and
have a harder time to adjust and find their roles.

Also, as a fun thing, there are also norms in the fields of science that change accordingly after what is seen as "the correct way":
We had flat earth,
we had lobotomy,
we had improper first aid methods for when kids choked on food,

first infants should rest on stomach (whoever weird influential practitioner found this appropriate with scientific backup),
secondly changed to infants should rest on back

Perhaps that may be you argument that a lot of modern science can stop being called science due
to these weird outcomes that can be felt as misperception/misconception to things.
However, even if infants in Ancient Greek rest on their backs - if there was documented medical tests on this
they are evidently missing since we had to redo it all again.

And I guess, that is why it's still science, even if it has to be redone, retested and rewritten with all kinds of inhuman practices and efforts there are ...

 

[michael_hackson]

I think it's a great argument to ponder if we could call modern science, science, if in retrospect it could be redundant.
But I guess that is what science is.

 

[michael_hackson]

Science also have to be flexible and respond to societal norms at some level.
Maybe it's to dig a little deep but we could look into that it's natural for modern humans to pick routes of least effort:
It has been seen in job studies and game theory studies that employees would choose to work less for same salary instead of a salary increase.

It is stated and reported that in modern living, the swarm of plastics we use has lead to microplastics accumulating in our bodies,
that just rest there in the organs and blood stream until we die - still we continue to use and abuse plastic.

The same goes for toxins. They report from studies that we have a lot of hormonal disturbances, even too high levels of lead has been found
in Shein and Temu products - We still buy from Shein and Temu.

To sum up: There is a need to have a phenomenon categorized or developed as Science, even if not all people would agree on it as being Science
since there is an interest and effort gap in making changes for each individual's living.

No need to hog this thread. I just find it fascinating.

 

[hruodr]

Doing what you like to do and that you feel to be able to do. Sleep if you feel exhausted. Take pills.

Not always, but normally, depression is accompanied with anxiety and problems sleeping.
I am not sure about the pills, perhaps in extreme cases.
Depression is specially problematic when suicide thinking begins, the manic state when people spoil their life.
As said, the beginning must be reflection, to recognize there is a problem.
A lot of people have no feeling with their surrounding, but also not even feeling with themselves.

There is a theory that schizophrenia and enlightenment is basically the same, only the schizophrenic doesn't enjoy the experience.

Only a crazy theory.
Some personalities are more like schizophrenic, they may feel that enlightenment, but that is not schizophrenia.
Other personalities are cyclic like manic depressive.
Other may have both components.

 

[ZioMario]

Not always, but normally, depression is accompanied with anxiety and problems sleeping.
I am not sure about the pills, perhaps in extreme cases.
Depression is specially problematic when suicide thinking begins, the manic state when people spoil their life.
As said, the beginning must be reflection, to recognize there is a problem.
A lot of people have no feeling with their surrounding, but also not even feeling with themselves.


Only a crazy theory.
Some personalities are more like schizophrenic, they may feel that enlightenment, but that is not schizophrenia.
Other personalities are cyclic like manic depressive.
Other may have both components.

Have you studied clinic psychology ? I read some good thoughts coming from you.

 

[ZioMario]

I see it totally differently. I don't see depression have to equal to the things you posted.
A theoretical standpoint can be to view it deterministically and use static values for depression.

I like the thinking more of:
"Do I have my legs intact? Sure I can walk."
"Do I feel I have the energy for it? Perhaps not."
"Can it be great for my health to do? Definitely."

Let's walk.

Have you ever felt depressed before ?

 

[hruodr]

Have you studied clinic psychology ? I read some good thoughts coming from you.

No, just read a little. Very old and outdated books, long ago. Mainly Ernst Kretschmer.

 

[michael_hackson]

Have you ever felt depressed before ?

That is what I am trying to focus on. I would not say that there is a 'right' or 'wrong' view since we talk about individuals and methods of treatment.
Key is the word 'felt'. A big chunk of treatment for depression is cognitive behavioral therapy to address the feelings and emotions and change them by new habiting and thinking. ^^

Also, a good start is to address the surroundings you have as a grown up. Being a kid or youngster you may not be able to affect the environment you sit in but as you get older
some people, behaviors or things have to be cut off.

I was gaming a lot as a sort of escapism before. It was needed back then but at the same time I understood it wouldn't improve my living or health so I had to cut it.
[Goodbye World of Warcraft]

 

[ZioMario]

No, just read a little. Very old and outdated books, long ago. Mainly Ernst Kretschmer.

I'm a psychologist. I asked because it seems that you have absorbed some good points.

 

[ZioMario]

That is what I am trying to focus on. I would not say that there is a 'right' or 'wrong' view since we talk about individuals and methods of treatment.
Key is the word 'felt'. A big chunk of treatment for depression is cognitive behavioral therapy to address the feelings and emotions and change them by new habiting and thinking. ^^

Also, a good start is to address the surroundings you have as a grown up. Being a kid or youngster you may not be able to affect the environment you sit in but as you get older
some people, behaviors or things have to be cut off.

I was gaming a lot as a sort of escapism before. It was needed back then but at the same time I understood it wouldn't improve my living or health so I had to cut it.
[Goodbye World of Warcraft]

If you are on the acute phase of a major depression,you will not be able to "change your habiting and thinking".
In the worst cases,you will not have enough energy to make the more basic things. To escape from the acute phase,it is
highly probable that you should take pills. When and if you will have gained more power,maybe you can start some
psychotherapy session. Take in consideration that to change habiting and thinking is not so easy. For mild depressive forms,you have more energy and you can work or make some sport or have some sexual activities...for example. Rest assured that change habiting and thinking is still not so easy.

 

[michael_hackson]

If you are on the acute phase of a major depression,you will not be able to "change your habiting and thinking".
In the worst cases,you will not have enough energy to make the more basic things. To escape from the acute phase,it is
highly probable that you should take pills. When and if you will have gained more power,maybe you can start some
psychotherapy session. Take in consideration that to change habiting and thinking is not so easy. For mild depressive forms,you have more energy and you can work or make some sport or have some sexual activities...for example. Rest assured that change habiting and thinking is still not so easy.

I have read the books too. Thanks.

 

[michael_hackson]

I guess my color and flavor shine through a lot.
Realised that to be Mayor Depressed it's enabled that you have the safety net to be Mayor Depressed:
Family, friends, daddy boss at work, a nice doctor, governmental support etc.

If you don't have those things you really don't have the option to be Mayor Depressed.

Being depressed is linked to entitlement.
Being in pain or misery is not.

 

[Piisuke79]

I either play Shogi or LugaruHD also works.

 

[hruodr]

For mild depressive forms,you have more energy and you can work ...

In the north, it is autumn, it is darker, it is not cold, but more cold than warm ...

I can imagine that a lot of people feel a little depressed, cannot tolerate it, run to the doctor, and he prescribe antidepressants, perhaps for the rest of their life ...

Realised that to be Mayor Depressed it's enabled that you have the safety net to be Mayor Depressed:

Family, friends, daddy boss at work, a nice doctor, governmental support etc.

Not everywhere. In some cultures is taboo, do not allow that people show depressed.

It is said that the south of Germany is more tolerant than the north.

 

[michael_hackson]

In the north, it is autumn, it is darker, it is not cold, but more cold than warm ...

I can imagine that a lot of people feel a little depressed, cannot tolerate it, run to the doctor, and he prescribe antidepressants, perhaps for the rest of their life ...



Not everywhere. In some cultures is taboo, do not allow that people show depressed.

It is said that the south of Germany is more tolerant than the north.

Think we could follow on the thought that depressive states are very linked to culture and societal pressure?
Which would introduce a weighing scale of how big part can it be perceived and defined as a mental illness or rather environmental affects.

We can take Mayor Depression and put him in an area he could, but also had to, self-sustain,
strip all other support and watch for how long he can allow himself to feel depressed.

We can take Mayor Schizophrenic and put him in an area ...
Guess he still would function in similar ways, however the diagnostic terms are based from societal norms also here.
In former Soviet they had a specific kind of Schizophrenia, Sluggish Schizophrenia that people were diagnosed with who were
against the political norms and forms.

Now this is science!!

 

[mer]

In the north, it is autumn, it is darker, it is not cold, but more cold than warm ...

But some of us actually enjoy this change; it's not hot like in the summer, I can breathe easier, me and the dogs (Bernese Mountain Dogs) look forward to these temps. Seeing the woods change colors nothing better to me.
Granted I'm not as far north as say where Suomi inhabit so the shortness of my daylight is not terrible.

 

[hruodr]

Think we could follow on the thought that depressive states are very linked to culture and societal pressure?

I do not think that social pressure or pressure of any kind heals depression, it makes the situation worse.

It is a big error to think it is something like laziness.

By the way, in autumn there is at most interruptions in urban trains because of, well, because of not light depression.

 

[hruodr]

But some of us actually enjoy this change; it's not hot like in the summer, I can breathe easier,

But some bears begin to hibernate at this time.

 

[michael_hackson]

I do not think that social pressure or pressure of any kind heals depression, it makes the situation worse.

It is a big error to think it is something like laziness.

By the way, in autumn there is at most interruptions in urban trains because of, well, because of not light depression.

I agree!

 

[mer]

But some bears begin to hibernate at this time.

Yes we do

 

[micski]

I am not an expert in the field, but if I felt depressed and ill, I would try to gather information and write a list of possible reasons. I would look into health as well as life in general. I would ask close friends what they have noticed. Much like looking into system logs. I would then look for immideate solutions for the smaller obvious fixable issues and then seek help for solutions to try and change long term issues and maybe a plan for meeting personal goals.