FreeBSD, Who is it for?

[blackhole]

“Linux people do what they do because they hate Microsoft. We do what we do because we love Unix"- Theo De Raadt

That was something which once applied to all the BSDs and BSD users. Post systemd, the climate has changed. (The Microsoft hate is also less relevant in that context).

FreeBSD in particular seems to have seen an influx of Linux users of late. Many of these users bring the usual "fanclub" culture with them.

I would say that BSD is not for you, if your reason for installing it and using it, is primarily motivated by some disdain or hate for Linux or systemd. Many such users will drift back to Linux because that's what they're familiar with.

 

[ShelLuser]

who do you think it's the right candidate for FreeBSD?

People with long grey beards

As someone above already mentioned above me... people who are interested in working with a true Unix environment; without any of the political bs. Sure; the OS isn't licensed so it can't officially be called 'Unix', but it can easily be considered one, also given the mature mindset behind its development.

What I love about FreeBSD myself is the fact that it doesn't discriminate. See, I consider myself quite a geek; I love tech and don't want to bother myself with (IMO): lame issues like "good" or "evil" and nonsense like that. I enjoy messing with Windows and its inner workings (PowerShell FTW!) just as much as I love my sessions with FreeBSD.

And the cool part is that FreeBSD can fully cater to this. For example, not only does it have full Hyper-V support (= Windows virtual machine), the port collection also provides whatever works. At the time of writing I'm actually building the full .NET framework (lang/dotnet) and PowerShell is next. I'm pretty sure that Linux is much less inviting to any of that.

 

[mro]

who do you think it's the right candidate for FreeBSD?

this appears a bit an awkward question to ask on the FreeBSD Forum - like "what candidate are YOU".

What do you mean with candidate? Like at a casting or election? Right candidate, right for whom?

There's a long thread about personal reasons to use FreeBSD. Can't find it, meanwhile see https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/what-do-you-use-freebsd-desktop-for.96879/

Edit: here it is, lot's of reading for empirical social science research: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/...-who-you-are-and-why-you-chose-freebsd.68079/

 

[tommiie]

I would say that BSD is not for you, if your reason for installing it and using it, is primarily motivated by some disdain or hate for Linux or systemd. Many such users will drift back to Linux because that's what they're familiar with.

I came to FreeBSD because my dislike for SystemD and never once considered switching back. I never knew about the BSDs before SystemD made me look for alternatives and I discovered that the BSDs match my personality and needs way better than Linux ever did. Sure, some or maybe most people will switch back to Linux "because that is what they are familiar with," but certainly not everyone will!

 

[Paul Floyd]

If you want to write software for FreeBSD then running FreeBSD is probably the best choice.

Things that I like

• Fully open-source
• Generally non-toxic community
• Passable hardware support

 

[Space Banana]

I came to FreeBSD because my dislike for SystemD and never once considered switching back. I never knew about the BSDs before SystemD made me look for alternatives and I discovered that the BSDs match my personality and needs way better than Linux ever did. Sure, some or maybe most people will switch back to Linux "because that is what they are familiar with," but certainly not everyone will!

Systemd hate is also different than Linux hate. New Linux users who switched to Linux only because they hate Windows are not comparable to Linux users to switched to a more Unix-friendly system because they hate Systemd. Windows refugees still want to emulate a Windows-like experience, while Systemd haters usually want a Unix-like experience rather than emulating Systemd.

As for my case, I strongly dislike Systemd but am fine with using FreeBSD's init system, though I like OpenRC the most because it just works while not getting in my way unlike Systemd.

 

[SDK Chan]

Actually I am not sure anymore when someone says "FreeBSD doesn't support new hardware, if you want new hardware supported switch to linux or Windows", because I have very recent hardware (Nvidia RTX 4090, MSI MPG 870E mainboard, RTL 8125/8126 chipset, AMD R9 9900X3D), and everything works.
Sure there is no CUDA support, and no iGPU support for my CPU as of now, but FreeBSD is at a point where it can be used as a desktop environment.
Even for gaming (Emulators,Wine)...

 

[dnb]

What is this weird statement that FreeBSD is only for nerds and geeks? This is a system primarily for professional programmers and UNIX system administrators who are interested in a truly *reliable* system. Who do important stuff on their computers, and are not ready to lose a second of their work because of a system failure.

Such people are interested in a deep understanding of the system. A number of books have been written about FreeBSD by real professionals. These books are as complete and relevant as FreeBSD itself.

 

[dnb]

Disagree - Gentoo, Arch, nixOS - these are for nerds tooo.

When you are a newbie and install the system according to the Gentoo Handbook, you have to download and unpack one of the archives with the so-called Stage3, namely the semi-finished product that you will have to configure. But this is not nearly as natural as in the case of FreeBSD: just clone the repository and do make buildworld.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

FreeBSD is a professional operating system for professionals and serious computer enthusiasts.

 

[kent_dorfman766]

very simple

if you have to answer with FreeBSD KDE, Gnome etc as a desktop/daily driver

who do you think it's the right candidate for FreeBSD?
[having mac os, windows and linux as an option too]

e.g
someone who does online banking, checking emails and cares about stability

Let's please not turn this into a flame/trolling war. The opinion expressed is mine based on 35 years of comp-sci field observations and experiences.

I don't consider freeBSD, or Linux for that matter, to be "for the masses". They are better suited to hackers or computing profressionals (those invovled in computer science)...and one of the reasons I hang out here is that I sense a more mature and professional community in freeBSD than in Linux. The exercised restraint and process for BSD development comes across as more professional than in Linux. LOL

 

[astyle]

who do you think it's the right candidate for FreeBSD?

Me!



I use it as a daily driver (email/online banking/whatever), and FreeBSD can also run anything that Linux can, and then some. Therefore, I'm the ideal candidate for FreeBSD!

Thank yew!

 

[SDK Chan]

FreeBSD can also run anything that Linux can

Almost anything, but if you have exotic needs and want, well ... exotic software from Linux, you still need to do some porting. Linux however is now at a point where you just get everything for granted, much like Windows these days.

Another point, the more I use FreeBSD the more I start to think about the whole system, and its existence in the outside world.
For example, my firewall and my VPN service.
I saw that my VPN service of choice supports Windows, Linux, MAC OSX.
Contacting them, because I saw that they implemented a kill-switch behavior in their wire-guard config files with IPTABLES, I wanted to know whether they could help me to convert IPTABLES into PF rules.
The answer was NO, they don't know how to do it.
My second question was, would their app with already implemented kill-switch behavior get official support for FreeBSD ?, and they said NO.
And they answered "We are sure you could implement some kind of kill-switch behavior in BSD, too".
So, I needed to tinker a lot, break things, trying things out, and then write scripts, but yes, no support at all.

I told them that I am caring for my security and performance, and that is why I use FreeBSD, but I don't understand that they as security agency neglect the BSDs considering linux security flaws over the years, and linux loose stance to even solve them.

In a whole, for FreeBSD, and I think for any other BSD, too, you need to have system administration knowledge, and programming knowledge to use the system to its fullest.
Unlike in Linux chances are slim that program X/Y already exists for your needs written by someone else.
And tinkering is an important aspect for FreeBSD.
So, people who say they are afraid to break things, I think any BSD will show to be not the right choice.

As for the outside world, even if you ask people, chances are very slim to get any support at all.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

As for the outside world, even if you ask people, chances are very slim to get any support at all.

At least you asked. Most people won't.

My VPS doesn't show support for FreeBSD 14.2. I asked if they could and the response was, "Sure! Give us a minute."

Two of the best jobs I ever had I was told not to bother applying for cause they weren't hiring or I wasn't qualified. I asked anyway.

 

[vermaden]

FreeBSD, Who is it for?

 

[SDK Chan]

At least you asked. Most people won't.

And it is not only BSD in this regard.
Why are people afraid to ask things ?
I think it has something to do with mobbing during the childhood period, followed the teenager period, and then continuing with a bad workplace where your colleagues remind one of their past being mocked or laughed at...

My VPS doesn't show support for FreeBSD 14.2. I asked if they could and the response was, "Sure! Give us a minute."

That is not good customer service...
At least they could answer honestly.

Two of the best jobs I ever had I was told not to bother applying for cause they weren't hiring or I wasn't qualified. I asked anyway.

But because you asked you got these jobs, right ?

 

[blackhole]

I came to FreeBSD because my dislike for SystemD and never once considered switching back. I never knew about the BSDs before SystemD made me look for alternatives and I discovered that the BSDs match my personality and needs way better than Linux ever did. Sure, some or maybe most people will switch back to Linux "because that is what they are familiar with," but certainly not everyone will!

I probably should have clarified. It's easy on medium such as this one, to make a statement which then comes across as far too general.

I can identify with your comments above - i.e. for me FreeBSD is the norm, Linux just seems messy these days.

There is nothing wrong with abandoning Linux due to systemd, to find an alternative. I was highlighting that proportion of Linux users who's usage of FreeBSD or OpenBSD, for example is purely motivated by hate for systemd and nothing more. These are the same kind of non technical users who flock to a systemd-less Linux distribution to join like minded people.

I have seen posts on the Devuan Linux forums, where people have flagged up the word "systemd" or a systemd unit file showing up in their system. This provoked outrage from certain individuals who behaved as if they had been deceived and swindled. There were unchallenged comments on the Devuan mailing lists where some misinformed individual claimed that systemd is "svchost" and an "MS registry". That kind of nonsense and the cultists they attract, drives people away from those projects.

There are a lot of these angry emotional types frequenting Linux "communities".

 

[tetsuo]

It's not that your FreeBSD doesn't support your hardware
Your hardware does not support FreeBSD

 

[SDK Chan]

I have seen posts on the Devuan Linux forums, where people have flagged up the word "systemd" or a systemd unit file showing up in their system.

What should they expect, systemD creeped in to much into linux ecosystem, and the systemD less distros create stub-files to satisfy pkg dependencies, these stubs should actually be harmless.
The same goes with elogind.
Even if you use consolekit2, but are for example downloading sway precompiled, you will get elogind as a dependency anyway, but it is also harmless as it does or should not run if you are not using it.
SystemD started as a nice idea, but ended up as software creep.
I guess that happens if you don't follow the UNIX philosophy by letting one program do one thing and do it right...

 

[drhowarddrfine]

That is not good customer service...
At least they could answer honestly.

To be clear, I could install 13-RELEASE from their panel but 14 had been out for quite a while. I assume nobody asked for the upgrade.

But because you asked you got these jobs, right ?

Yep.

 

[Espionage724]

It's not that your FreeBSD doesn't support your hardware
Your hardware does not support FreeBSD

How does that work with the graphics stack being from Linux?

That is not good customer service...
At least they could answer honestly.

If they didn't come back with something useful within a minute I'd have some complaints

I'm not familiar with hosting providers, but Vultr VPS allows uploading ISOs as-is; I'd use a net or memstick image and install FreeBSD like that vs a drop-down choice from the provider (they offer different Linux distros/versions and Windows iirc).

 

[tetsuo]

How does that work with the graphics stack being from Linux?

A wizard did it

 

[bgavin]

I only use FBSD only for my NAS with ZFS.
I have no public facing networks.

My work is entirely done in Cakewalk, Photoshop/ON1, RawThereapee, Nikon Capture NX-D, VirtualDJ and Excel VBA.

I have a great admiration for the command line.

 

[RetroComputingCollector]

• Fully open-source

I'm glad someone finally realizes how much proprietary crap and SaaS many Linsux distros (read: Ubuntu) rely on.

 

[astyle]

So, people who say they are afraid to break things,

This is a refrain I see/hear a bit too often... People do have production machines running Linux and BSDs. The dependency hell is equally bad in both camps. Imagine having a production machine go down with no good way to restore things other than a complete reinstall from scratch or a good handle on ZFS snapshots. If it's a non-production machine that you don't mind spending time on, sure, go ahead, practice, make mistakes, and learn. But if your job is on the line, you gotta make damn sure you can put things back exactly as they were if the change you introduce does not work out as intended. And if you can't do that, just leave the machine alone.