FreeBSD or Linux from Windows

I find it incredibly strange and disheartening that they don't hang out here, on FreeBSD's own forum.
Strangely enough it is not FreeBSDs forum in the sense of the OS, but it is a forum of the FreeBSD foundation which acts as a sponsor.
I remember saying one developer over the whole Russia, and Russian dilemma which happened in linux that neither the politics, and also not the FreeBSD foundation rules the project, but the people who respects their CoC being of all genders, colors, etc...
 
maybe I am doing something wrong with poudriere. 😅
i scanned the thread and saw this post along the way. I am new to FreeBSD and i haven't investigated ports just yet. I searched the web for a description of poudriere and i decided to add it to my ports. 2.5 hours later (SpongeBob), i had to crash VirtualBox because it was 3am and i had to go to bed - remember that i am testing FreeBSD in VirtualBox on my cheap ASUS laptop and i can only allot it 1.758 of my 4GB of RAM. I think that this is mostly Python stuff 0.0 whatever happened to C/CPP coders? gcc make build compile and enjoy. I think that i will skip the ports stuff. git and poudriere (i know, powder keg) explode a clean FreeBSD and it is a very large kA-bOOm.

kpedersen @!# why on earth would anyone want to take a Windows take-out and turn it into a Windows buffet for espionage? Please folks, do not use a Windows Server as a desktop system. Believe me, they can turn things off or on at will and privacy dinner is served...

I have played with FreeBSD for a week now. I think that my foggy future is becoming clearer: install FreeBSD and keep it bare bones. Install only what is necessary to rub VirtualBox or Bhyve. Install operating systems into said emulators like apps in an appstore. Thus, whenever i want a flashy desktop GUI, i can launch my emulator and play. I can maintain copies of multiple systems for multiple purposes. I can designate one of these VMs as an internet browsing system and use a shared folder for saving downloads. In the end, i get to enjoy all of the benefits of a clean, stable, reliable system while still being able to enjoy the things that FreeBSD has yet to support. A perfect plan :-) but sometimes, plans do not work out the way that we envision them. I will try it out and hopefully, it is an end all to my Windows woes...

 
I searched the web for a description of poudriere and i decided to add it to my ports.
That is a bit too much for someone new to FreeBSD. Poudriere is basically a way to reproduce the entire production infrastructure of FreeBSD. It is fantastic for automating a lot of the chores, but to make use of it, one has to have a good handle on how stuff is organized, how the data moves, how to resolve errors...

Just one week of playing with FreeBSD is not enough. If you can't even get a functional Xorg desktop/WM or play with ports and the FreeBSD-specific Makefile knobs to figure out what you like, then Poudriere is not gonna be of any use.

remember that i am testing FreeBSD in VirtualBox on my cheap ASUS laptop and i can only allot it 1.758 of my 4GB of RAM.
First time you mention this in this thread. There's nothing to remember. Just know this: FreeBSD does offer lightweight desktops for this kind of hardware, but do stay away from resource-heavy software like Firefox and KDE. You're lucky VirtualBox can launch at all on your 4 GB RAM laptop. If you want to do the cool stuff like Poudriere, you do need much beefier specs for your metal.

Just a little story from my personal experience: My current laptop is a Lenovo Thinbook 14 G4, with a Ryzen 7 5825U. It came with 16 GB RAM, but I upgraded to 40 GB. 16 GB RAM (plus a good processor) is normally adequate for on-metal compilation, but completely inadequate if you want to play with virtualization of other OSes at the same time on the same hardware. I discovered that the hard way, BTW - my previous attempt to get FreeBSD on a laptop was also an Asus laptop - one that has 16 GB of RAM and a Ryzen 9 6900HS. On that one, the built-in keyboard was somehow problematic, and that is still not resolved. Point of my story - you do need beefier metal if you want to do do cool stuff.

Otherwise, it would be more practical to see how to replicate existing functionality of your laptop using components available on FreeBSD. These Forums have lots of people who do exactly that, and they even play a game of friendly one-upmanship of who can achieve the most lightweight, nicest-looking desktop that still offers enough functionality to leave Windows behind.
 
kpedersen @!# why on earth would anyone want to take a Windows take-out and turn it into a Windows buffet for espionage? Please folks, do not use a Windows Server as a desktop system. Believe me, they can turn things off or on at will and privacy dinner is served...
Just like any proprietary / commercial OS, you need to isolate it behind a i.e SOCKS proxy.

Basically, if the inbuilt Windows update works, then you are doing the security wrong.
 
Basically, if the inbuilt Windows update works, then you are doing the security wrong.
Now that, I do disagree with. McAfee tried to be a replacement, and failed miserably by making the cure even worse than the problem it tried to solve. The namesake (a British programmer, BTW) would probably turning over his grave, if he knew just how bad it got!

Microsoft's native security updates are actually quite adequate if you just let them do their job. Even Fortune 100 companies are discovering that, I was on the sidelines watching that at my last $JOB.

Basically, if you wanna take control and have sovereignty, be prepared to also put in the hard work it takes to make the perks/upsides even possible. Perfect security means not letting ANYONE in, and taking pains to verify legitimacy of anyone within a 100-meter radius. Just like FreeBSD is free of charge, and gives you the freedom to do just about anything - if you accept that it's largely a DIY thing.
 
Microsoft's native security updates are actually quite adequate if you just let them do their job. Even Fortune 100 companies are discovering that, I was on the sidelines watching that at my last $JOB.
Typically updates are rolled out via WSUS in the enterprise. Windows update is for consumer machines and is far too chaotic.
Not to mention, being isolated and protected by a proxy means that WSUS is really the only choice anyway.

Just because you shouldn't allow Microsoft to screw with your fleet, certainly doesn't mean you leave them unmaintained. Just that you get to decide between sane updates, and incorrect updates.
 
Just that you get to decide between sane updates, and incorrect updates.
I still have memories of spending a solid week working with people above me on the Corporate IT ladder. My machine was frankly VERY well maintained and compliant with all the security policies, it had all the certs necessary for authentication in lots of places. But when McAfee was finally, after months of investigation, discovered as the culprit behind the sudden printing issues (nobody could send a job to a networked printer on corporate networks), it was a huge pain to rectify. McAfee was actually removed from my machine, and I was told, "Hey, just let Microsoft be the AntiVirus thing on your laptop". And since then, I had yet to see a single problem printing! McAfee was actually removed from laptops of lots of other people afterwards, my machine was just the lab rat in this story. And guess what, printing was never a problem since then - even with the regular MS updates that I received later. 😤 Yep, this is a real story from an enterprise environment.

This "You get to decide" also means, "You put in the effort to make sure it works".
 
A lot of these antivirus softwares are just malware in its own right (actually, since Windows Defender targets and removes pirated software on behalf of Microsoft's stakeholders and against the users wishes, it is also classed as malware).

There is a compulsion from IT professionals from the early 2000s that you *must* have antivirus software. This was never the case, you just need to not run stuff as Administrator. If *you* can't damage the machine, then neither can virus software running as *you* with the same limited privileges.

Updates are a different matter, unless you isolate the machine (again, SOCKS proxy), then it is likely that exploits against running network services will be found. But updates can be done offline (and should be when bootstrapping a fresh install). The Windows 7 security rollups and the macOS combo updates were the easy way to do it (thus "deprecated").
 
Just one week of playing with FreeBSD is not enough. If you can't even get a functional Xorg desktop/WM or play with ports and the FreeBSD-specific Makefile knobs to figure out what you like, then Poudriere is not gonna be of any use.

are you talking to me or someone else in my thread? I believe that i have posted several screen captures of my xorg desktop with both a DE and a WM. 0.0 I'll add another screen to this response with vlc playing Yeah Glo! I guess that it isn't functional in the way that you prefer it to be? I have even tinkered with dwm and it is the fastest wm that i have tested thus far. Windowmaker also seems like a good choice. Anyway, i have FreeBSD functioning very well.

I wonder: when i say that i have been a Windows user since 1999 (2025-1999=26) do you interpret that as you know more than me? I know Windows well and i have been using virtualbox since version 4. If you have trouble configuring virtualbox and getting it to work in 4gb laptops, then maybe your opinion is based upon that fact. However, i have a full GUI Linux Mint with Firefox running while playing music. I have no problems other than it not running at full speed. I have also used Windows 10 in virtualbox on this system. You should read more about how to configure virtualbox and vboxmanage is a big help. Linux Mint with Cinnamon running Firefox and vlc is much heavier than FreeBSD with Xorg and a WM.

kpedersen You should spend more time on Windows and hacking. Windows is a Playground for Hackers but then you do not know enough to understand it. If you want to block Windows updates just use TinyWall and set Fiddler Classic as a system proxy. But watch out for the backdoors 'cause they will hit you in the backside and knock your chips out of the bowl :-) Windows is dead and Bill jumped that ship long time ago...

I have my system where i want it for now. I am going to learn about Jails next and Jails are very interesting. I have a few books about FreeBSD, so i will read over jails and get my hands dirty...

Thanks for the posts and the interesting stories. I love you people here :-) FreeBSD!
 

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kpedersen @!# why on earth would anyone want to take a Windows take-out and turn it into a Windows buffet for espionage? Please folks, do not use a Windows Server as a desktop system. Believe me, they can turn things off or on at will and privacy dinner is served...
IOMMU + Core Isolation, Defender All-on with ALSR, FIPS mode, firewall, and full-updates packages from Microsoft that install as-is consistently; where's the problem with Windows? :p

I ran a server for years with Linux and made a systemd script to auto-update daily. Windows just handles it; I notice a new CU releases, I check my server, and it's usually already installed and rebooted.

Edit: I kind-of misread that the first time; I'm not sure why someone would take Window Server and use that as a desktop OS, instead of Windows :p (Pro, Pro for Workstations, Enterprise, and LTSC are better choices)
 
are you talking to me or someone else in my thread?
To you. I can take an educated guess about a user's ability from the comments they make.
I guess that it isn't functional in the way that you prefer it to be?
I don't have a judgement about that. If you want to just replicate the functionality you're used to on Windows, there are ways to do that on FreeBSD. For example, VLC is actually available on Windows, Linux, and all the BSDs, with the exact same feature set. Actually, a lot of nice apps are. But when you have the hardware you have, it helps to know what the limitations of your specs are. As an example, Blender is no longer the little cool program that can run on 512 MB of RAM any more. It needs a beefy GPU that costs at least $500, and at least 32 GB of RAM to run well.
I wonder: when i say that i have been a Windows user since 1999 (2025-1999=26) do you interpret that as you know more than me? I know Windows well and i have been using virtualbox since version 4. If you have trouble configuring virtualbox and getting it to work in 4gb laptops, then maybe your opinion is based upon that fact. However, i have a full GUI Linux Mint with Firefox running while playing music. I have no problems other than it not running at full speed. I have also used Windows 10 in virtualbox on this system. You should read more about how to configure virtualbox and vboxmanage is a big help. Linux Mint with Cinnamon running Firefox and vlc is much heavier than FreeBSD with Xorg and a WM.
I've used Windows since 3.11 (back in 1994, then I watched my school install Windows 95, ), Linux between 2002 and 2017 (when I discovered Mandrake), FreeBSD since 2017. And VirtualBox? It was released for the first time in 2007, I still had a Dell Inspiron laptop with 1 GB of RAM back then, and I still have my handwritten notes about Linux details from that time. And yeah, if you want anything remotely interesting to run inside a VirtualBox appliance at full speed these days, give that appliance at least 8 GB of RAM.

If you do any actual researh on these Forums looking for help with VirtualBox, you'll actually see a few of my posts where I give real help. I'm not gonna link to those posts, finding them is left as an exercise for you, johnjohn ...

You should spend more time on Windows and hacking. Windows is a Playground for Hackers but then you do not know enough to understand it.
What in the world gives you the idea that you can be this rude to others on the Forums? 😲 I can tell that kpedersen knows quite a bit about Windows in the enterprise environments. We do have debates about the wisdom of some moves that we witnessed from the decision-makers in the enterprise environments, and we have our differences on what we see as Good Practices, but come on, that's because we can tell, "Hey, the other guy actually knows SOMETHING and has a point"...
Bill jumped that ship long time ago...
If you actually bother to read the Wikipedia entry about Bill Gates, you'll discover that he was originally a Lisp programmer who understood the value of being open about letting others see the code and suggest improvements. In short, the guy himself actually understood Open Source pretty well.
 
I'm not sure why someone would take Window Server and use that as a desktop OS, instead of Windows
This reminds me of a story from my last $JOB where someone did pretty much that. Well, it was basically a VM appliance that collected some research data. It was a non-standard setup, normally people would use Windows Enterprise Edition for such scenarios at my last $JOB. At one point, the VM stopped accepting the updates that Corporate IT was managing, simply because the VM did not have any more disk space inside. I had to track down the guy who originally set it up, and work with him to de-commission the VM. So yeah, you do see weird decision making from time to time.
 
I have used Windows since 3.1 and used DOS before that. I'm not sure it matters however.

In my workplace we took in two new people, both claimed a lot of experience with Windows - neither of these have ever used regedit, neither of them have used the cmd CLI, let alone powershell.

The MMC, including group policy editor were even greater mysteries.

Then it turns out the so called "experts", just downdoad a lot of 3rd party applications to get things done and really don't understand much at all, in particular nothing about Windows deploynent in enterprise, very little about device driver installation, managing printers, even setting up users and permissions.

So if someone posts here claiming they know a lot / everything about Windows, I tend to take it with a few grains of salt.
 
johnjohn
I read your message about poudriere yesterday.
Before installing FreeBSD on a nvme SSD, I tried it out with virtualbox, too.
Installing pkgs was no problem, but there was a problem with poudriere.
I have passed 6 CPU cores, and 140 GB of RAM to virtualbox, but poudriere crashed on me due to instabilities while building ports.
Trying out poudriere on the non-virtualized FreeBSD OS, poudriere worked like a charm.

As for the configuration of poudriere.
You have many choices, but it is not overly complex.
For poudriere as a whole you have only to edit poudriere.conf to your liking.
I would recommend using ZFS with poudriere.

And before you create a jail, use the following commands as root:
zfs create zroot/poudriere (this creates a dataset which you can shrink, destroy, etc. if you don't want it).
zfs set mountpoint=/usr/local/poudriere zroot/poudriere (this will ensure that poudriere doesn't create a poudriere folder on / after a jail is created alongside a /usr/local/poudriere folder)
After that edit the poudriere.conf. :)
I once ommited the two steps above and had a duplicate of /usr/local/poudriere on /poudriere, not very nice...

As for ports.
You can handle them through git, svn, manually, or even let poudriere handle the ports.
I am letting poudriere handling the ports for updating purposes.
 
Eh, I can prove some of my knowledge if questioned :p

I've wondered if having notes like that could serve as some proof of experience for potential employers, but I'm not sure if it really outshines having a degree.
Degrees sadly are not so important anymore than they were before, although it doesn't hurt to have one.
Nowadays companies want to see much more than a degree.
In fact some projects, portfolio, certificats for the CV would have so much more value, skills, too of course.
At least in some branches of the IT world.

Yeah, I wish I could prove my knowledge if questioned, but I can prove it better if not questioned, and just by some projects.
Since I easily get panicked if questioned.
 
IOMMU + Core Isolation, Defender All-on with ALSR, FIPS mode, firewall, and full-updates packages from Microsoft that install as-is consistently; where's the problem with Windows? :p
The problem is all the undocumented features that you don't want to be running. Attach a network traffic analyser to it, it will light up like a christmas tree. Also, you can't instruct a lot of Windows services to listen only on localhost (SMB, RDP, DNS). The only way to make sure it is not internet accessible is via firewall. This is simply incorrect as an approach.

And the Windows firewall is the most disappointing part, Microsoft's dodgy little services and apps can add their own rules to that if you have blocked them, allowing themselves through (it is safer to use GroupPolicy firewall but since it doesn't support fallthrough, it is effectively useless. You can't add a single "Disable all" rule and then just forward one or two ports. It doesn't work like that).

I'm not sure why someone would take Window Server and use that as a desktop OS, instead of Windows :p (Pro, Pro for Workstations, Enterprise, and LTSC are better choices)
For one, you can reach better performance with it and it uses less RAM. It is more of a stripped down OS (relatively...). You can uninstall Windows Defender, you can also domain join yourself (important for older developer licenses without connecting to Microsoft's servers (which you can't when isolated)).

Don't run vanilla "Pro". That is a consumer OS and comes with adverts, etc in the default install.

(Note: I still don't recommend running Windows in general for any networked use-case)
 
I was thinking that FreeBSD devs should doubledown on Desktop integration and plug-and-play devices, then make a commercial for FreeBSD playing AC/DC Demon Fire i...l

cmd LOL. VBScript will get you further than command line unless u running batch scripts. I once made a script to release and renew my ip to stay online while a hotel admin kept trying to kick me off the router. LOL. I used it in conjunction with a spoofed mac address. But VBScripts are pretty powerful in the Windows World. Even basic scipts like the following are quite useful at times:

Code:
Dim objShell
Set objShell=CreateObject("Shell.Application")
objShell.ControlPanelItem("desk.cpl")

objShell.ShutdownWindows
objShell.ShellExecute "notepad.exe", "", "", "open", 1

Set wshShell=CreateObject("Wscript.Shell")
return = wshShell.Run("C:\Users\john\AppData\Local")

Firefox is still useful these days and i've been using Netscape since version 3x on my Win98se.
Code:
@-moz-document domain(www.youtube.com) {
    .iron-overlay-backdrop { display: none !important; }
    .paper-dialog { display: none !important; }
    .ytd-consent { display: none !important; }
     #main.ytd-mealbar-promo-renderer { display: none !important; }
    .ytd-mealbar-promo-renderer { height: 0 !important; }
}
@-moz-document domain(www.google.com) {
    body { overflow-y: visible !important; }
    .paper-dialog { display: none !important; }
    .ytd-consent { display: none !important; }
}
@-moz-document domain(superuser.com) {
    div.js-consent-banner { display: none !important; }
    div.ps-fixed { display: none !important; }
    div.z-nav-fixed { display: none !important; }
    #noscript-warning { display: none !important; }
}
@-moz-document domain(dba.stackexchange.com) {
    div.js-consent-banner { display: none !important; }
    div.ps-fixed { display: none !important; }
    div.z-nav-fixed { display: none !important; }
    #noscript-warning { display: none !important; }
}
@-moz-document domain(askubuntu.com) {
    div.js-consent-banner { display: none !important; }
    div.ps-fixed { display: none !important; }
    div.z-nav-fixed { display: none !important; }
    #noscript-warning { display: none !important; }
}
@-moz-document domain(codereview.stackexchange.com) {
    div.js-consent-banner { display: none !important; }
    div.ps-fixed { display: none !important; }
    div.z-nav-fixed { display: none !important; }
    #noscript-warning { display: none !important; }
}
@-moz-document domain(stackoverflow.com) {
    div.js-consent-banner { display: none !important; }
    div.ps-fixed { display: none !important; }
    div.z-nav-fixed { display: none !important; }
    #noscript-warning { display: none !important; }
}

Fiddler is very nice because hosts files are relevant again outside of MS control (funny that MS coders made it):
hostsfiddler.jpg attachment

someone mentioned Windows XP and EOS updates. I have every update, optional update and security update for xpsp3. I also have all of the useful dev tools and extras. Screen capts included. But i don't have to reinstall them because i have Media Center Edition vhd file that i add to virtualbox whenever i want to use XP EOS.

I once dabbled in QBasic code just for learning purposes. My arrow key naviagting menu code screen capture is included along with a screen of my PHP JPEG scanner. I have recently started studying svg and i made a Coccinella magnifica svg image (vide screen capture). I'm getting better at svg but it is alot to learn. Math makes my head hurt, although i made a nice php script to display a grid of user mxn specification, then i calculate diagonals including what i call tensive diagonals. The math involved was intense but i cut down the calculus crap to basic arithmetic and my code is lightning fast and now i have my own ai chess player :-) AI is next on my list of things to do.

I need some help with FreeBSD:
does anyone know if Wacom tablets work in FreeBSD? does anyone use a microscope camera in FreeBSD? can we use tools to run Microscope camera drivers? I am new to *BSD o i do not know if Microscope cameras work or not...

I just have to laugh at the virtualbox barely running with 4gb comment. So i add a screen of virtualbox running in Windows 10. I loaded Linux Mint with charles proxy and Firefox, show my pc specs from Windows 10 settings, while FreeBSD is running in another instance and Fiddler is running on my Win10 at the same time. I have no idea what someone is doing that virtualbox is not loading in 4gb of ram. :cool:
 

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does anyone know if Wacom tablets work in FreeBSD?
Well, libwacom is in ports: x11/libwacom. Try playing with that. YMMV.

Not sure about microscope cameras... you can always try buying a USB camera and see if that works.

I have passed 6 CPU cores, and 140 GB of RAM to virtualbox, but poudriere crashed on me due to instabilities while building ports.
140 GB RAM... now that is jaw-dropping... I barely have a net total of 124 GB of RAM in 5 different computers! (2 desktops with 32 GB RAM total each, a laptop from 2012 with 8 GB, a laptop with 16 GB, and a laptop with 40 GB). Well, actually, there's another machine that I was forced to shut down and put into storage because it was noisy, that does add 32 GB of RAM)...

johnjohn , what version of Linux Mint are you running in that VM? how much RAM did each of your appliances get? (yep, including the FreeBSD one) and how soon did everything on the metal slow down to a crawl, forcing a reboot?
 
140 GB RAM... now that is jaw-dropping...
Not so rare these days...

Code:
[<hidden_user>@<hidden_host> /]$ free
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:     1582507284   599637764     7640424      754040   975229096   961652352
Swap:      65535996      663036    64872960
[<hidden_user>@<hidden_host> /]$
 
If you need a GUI: Windows, MacOS, or ChromeOS.
If you absolutely positively need to have an open source GUI: Linux
If you need an open source server: FreeBSD, NetBSD, or OpenBSD. These systems are too nice to be ruined with a GUI.
I've been using a FreeBSD GUI since 1995. fvwm2, gnome, kde, xfce, lxde, back to fvwm2 (because the others are bloated), mwm, and finally CDE. (I used to use CDE on Tru64 and Solaris back in the day. I'm used to it.)

Even though my laptops these days have a lot of RAM, the Acer has 8 GB, HP 840 has 32 GB, and the Framework 13 has 96 GB, I still use the minimal (in comparison) CDE. Leaving the RAM for apps or ZFS ARC.

But certainly, FreeBSD is even better for servers. The FreeBSD servers in my basement (next to the furnace) spend most of their time building something, whether base FreeBSD or ports, or running a VM such as a Linux distro. But, FreeBSD is good as a desktop too. I've been using FreeBSD as a desktop for about 30 years.
 
But certainly, FreeBSD is even better for servers. The FreeBSD servers in my basement (next to the furnace) spend most of their time building something, whether base FreeBSD or ports, or running a VM such as a Linux distro. But, FreeBSD is good as a desktop too. I've been using FreeBSD as a desktop for about 30 years.
FreeBSD is also very good for emulation, especially game consoles like Sonys PS3, or Nintendos Switch.
Due to the efficient kernel scheduler, I think.
If hardly, the rpcs3 team clearly states that FreeBSD gives the most performance compared to linux, although it wasn't the case before.
I tried yuzu on FreeBSD, and the performance in demanding games clearly improved compared to minimal linux distros or Windows.
 
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