Solved Attempting to run cwm on FreeBSD

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I imagine that you have configured a regular user and added that user to wheel, operator and video groups.

I have been following this tutorial, with deviations given that cwm is slightly off the beaten track, for freebsd. Youtube tutorials are great, in the sense that the handbook is loooooooooooooooooong. Discouraging in it's completeness. Until somebody figures out how to make it both complete, and quick to read and implement, such tutorials will have a place for people who can't handle more than the short-and-sweet.

I have a user configured, but drop to root (not using sudo or doas) for anything requiring priviledges.

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

The lock error seems like it is a permissions issue, so if you are not root, then you need read and write permissions on the .Xauthority file. See my attachment as an example using my user,group info (john:john).

Right. I drop to root when I need to, but when I call starx, -that- is from my "ordinary user" account.
Your attachment is fascinating.

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

So have you tried startx? is everything working now? I hope so

That's how I found out that the proposed solution seems to work

A useful tool for gleaning system info is dmidecode. In the future, you can use this tool to gather info about your system, which could be useful for installing drivers. I have used a similar tool on Windows to setup a system in VirtualBox using vboxmanage. I was able to successfully activate Windows because all of the system data was present from the actual hardware. dmidecode tools are very nice for collecting such information.

Awesome! ..more research for me

I hope that you have your driver and xorg working. Let us know if you have solved this problem ...

My plan is to re-install once again so that I can properly verify your suggestion for activating the driver without needing a reboot. Then.. I'll try to understand the permissions thing and what you put in that screen-shot.. And then I'll proceed to setup the rest of my system the way I think I know how to do and will promptly find out that I actually don't.. ..onwards!

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

for example: $ kldload i915kms

Works! Like a charm.. Seems to have a seizure while it's at it, but what's life without some drama..
..and the .Xauthority is there now, with the same permissions as yours.. ..convenient.. ;-)

..so.. (..at least for systems similar to mine, with intel graphics..)

1) Login.
2) su (Become root..)
3) # pkg install xorg (Chapter 5 Handbook)
4) # pkg install drm-kmod (Chapter 5 Handbook)
5) # sysrc kld_list+=i915kms (Chapter 5 Handbook)
6) # kldload i915kms ( -Not- present in chapter 5 of handbook, as far as I can tell..) (not clear if this needs to be done as root, but doing it as root -does- work.
7) # pkg install cwm (..on till morning..)
8) # chown -R user:user /home/user (I -think- this has to be done as root, or with sudo..) (whether this is the best or approved way, no idea)
9) As ordinary user, create (or edit) .xinitrc to include:

exec cwm

10) $ startx (After a brief fit, you will get a black screen with a working mouse. See this and this (very bottom)(and many many more examples out there..), for suggestions as to what else you might include [in .xinitrc] to get anything beyond said black screen )
11) For those not familiar with cwm, Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Q [CMS-q] will get you back out of it ;-)

 

[johnjohn]

Hi mikethe1wheelnut,

congratulations!!! I am so happy for you. You did well and deserve a round of applause I was hoping that it worked for you.

I like your instructions for others and with a sense of humour too

I am still playing with FreeBSD in VirtualBox because it is new to me. I want to master certain concepts, then i want to make a video for Windows users migrating to The Beast (FreeBSD). I've had some problems along the way but mostly because i am a Windows user and nothing specific to FreeBSD. Anyway, i still have to learn about PF and sslproxy/sslsplit. I also need to double-down on jails. One last thing for me is adding Apache, PHP and MySQL to the mix with security in mind. Then i will be ready to install on my laptop and make a video guide for other Windows users. We need to help each other, i figure.

So i hope that you can add alacritty and picom and enjoy your new installation. It has been a pleasure getting to know you, mikethe1wheelnut. Now get some rest, please. You've worked hard on this problem and you have managed to solve it. Yay!

I hope that you have a pleasant day,
John

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

Windows users migrating to The Beast (FreeBSD)

..And here I thought that migrating to OpenBSD from Ubuntu was a giant leap.. ..giggle.. ;-)

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

One last thing for me is adding Apache, PHP and MySQL to the mix with security in mind.

..Web-programmer, huh?

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

Then i will be ready to install on my laptop and make a video guide for other Windows users. We need to help each other, i figure.

..I like your level of ambition. And I take this as an indication of the level of problems with windows. I've come to see windows users as immovable rocks, quite content with their systems. Even linux, for many of them, is heresy ..I got exposed to linux as part of my undergrad, or I would probably myself still be in that category

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

So i hope that you can add alacritty and picom and enjoy your new installation. It has been a pleasure getting to know you, mikethe1wheelnut. Now get some rest, please. You've worked hard on this problem and you have managed to solve it. Yay!

I am sick, hence my low energy level. That said, getting myself off of linux and graduating to the bsd's -will- be a major accomplishment, and make me feel fabulous. Seriously, all my other collaborators are solidly stuck in either windows or mac-world. Even linux, for most people, is an act of rebellion. I hope your son is well! Onwards with cleaning up our computers! ;-)

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

Hi mikethe1wheelnut,

congratulations!!! I am so happy for you. You did well and deserve a round of applause I was hoping that it worked for you.

I like your instructions for others and with a sense of humour too

I am still playing with FreeBSD in VirtualBox because it is new to me. I want to master certain concepts, then i want to make a video for Windows users migrating to The Beast (FreeBSD). I've had some problems along the way but mostly because i am a Windows user and nothing specific to FreeBSD. Anyway, i still have to learn about PF and sslproxy/sslsplit. I also need to double-down on jails. One last thing for me is adding Apache, PHP and MySQL to the mix with security in mind. Then i will be ready to install on my laptop and make a video guide for other Windows users. We need to help each other, i figure.

So i hope that you can add alacritty and picom and enjoy your new installation. It has been a pleasure getting to know you, mikethe1wheelnut. Now get some rest, please. You've worked hard on this problem and you have managed to solve it. Yay!

I hope that you have a pleasant day,
John

Thank you for your help!!! I'm gradually feeling better, my energy levels heading back up!

 

[johnjohn]

Thank you for your help!!! I'm gradually feeling better, my energy levels heading back up!

I meant that rest is probably necessary after all of this stressful work and you agree that your energy levels were low. Sometimes computer stress can weigh on us and it is always a good idea to take a break from computing.

..Web-programmer, huh?

yes, i program php, html, css, javascript and svg. I am self-educated. I learn at home in spare time. I started studying php in 2016 and i finally reached an advanced level around 2022. LOL. spare time. I'm thinking of making my own php desktop for use in xorg. I want to load an embedded browser and use php, apache and mysql to operate a desktop environment, merely as a php exercise. But first, i am building a forum for a friend of mine. He has a commercial forum but it is outdated and he is too old to program and he doesn't want to use any other forums. So i am building a new forum based upon the functionality and appearance of his current forum. Large project for one person.

one day i was looking at source code for something on github and i thought that it was a php script, so i double-checked the filename and it was actually a c++ file. I did not realize that php is so similar to c/cpp until that moment. I'd like to learn the basics of both c and c++ now.

I have Linux mint in VirtualBox and i like Mint. I find most distros of Linux to be horrible and a waste of my time. But Mint is rather nice. Maybe i like Mint the best because Mint with cinnamon dektop is similar to Windows.

I know that some people reach a comfort level with Windows and they give up on anything that isn't pre-configured or easy. I am not one of those Windows users. In fact, i find that Windows is not as important to me as it used to be. Mostly video game emulators and certain software was not available on Linux in the past. I haven't tried Linux since 2010. I see now that most emulators work on Linux now and i can simply use virtualbox with a Windows system for software that is specific to Windows. I am no longer chained to Microsoft Windows. I am ready to move on.

We take different paths. I am coming from Windows and you are coming from Linux. Yet, here we are and helping each other in the process. FreeBSD is great

You know more about Linux than i do, actually, everyone knows more about Linux than i do. LOL. I just tinker with it from time-to-time. FreeBSD is definitely not Windows or Linux but i really like it. I just have alot to learn. I feel like Windows has narrowed my scope of computing and robbed me of a proper education in this field. I can actually begin to see the makings of Windows whenever i use FreeBSD. I see where they get some of their ideas and i am starting to understand how some of it works. FreeBSD allows me to learn computing properly.

I also taught myself dipterology and archnology. I like to study flies and spiders and i photograph nature whenever i can do so. I have discovered two first records for Germany but noone will publish records from some guy studying at home. LOL. I will have to publish the findings myself. I had my genitalia-based identifications confirmed by experts.

Well, i am going to spend some more time on FreeBSD today and i am going to get a cup of coffee first.

I hope that you have a great day

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I meant that rest is probably necessary after all of this stressful work and you agree that your energy levels were low. Sometimes computer stress can weigh on us and it is always a good idea to take a break from computing.


yes, i program php, html, css, javascript and svg. I am self-educated. I learn at home in spare time. I started studying php in 2016 and i finally reached an advanced level around 2022. LOL. spare time. I'm thinking of making my own php desktop for use in xorg. I want to load an embedded browser and use php, apache and mysql to operate a desktop environment, merely as a php exercise. But first, i am building a forum for a friend of mine. He has a commercial forum but it is outdated and he is too old to program and he doesn't want to use any other forums. So i am building a new forum based upon the functionality and appearance of his current forum. Large project for one person.

one day i was looking at source code for something on github and i thought that it was a php script, so i double-checked the filename and it was actually a c++ file. I did not realize that php is so similar to c/cpp until that moment. I'd like to learn the basics of both c and c++ now.

I have Linux mint in VirtualBox and i like Mint. I find most distros of Linux to be horrible and a waste of my time. But Mint is rather nice. Maybe i like Mint the best because Mint with cinnamon dektop is similar to Windows.

I know that some people reach a comfort level with Windows and they give up on anything that isn't pre-configured or easy. I am not one of those Windows users. In fact, i find that Windows is not as important to me as it used to be. Mostly video game emulators and certain software was not available on Linux in the past. I haven't tried Linux since 2010. I see now that most emulators work on Linux now and i can simply use virtualbox with a Windows system for software that is specific to Windows. I am no longer chained to Microsoft Windows. I am ready to move on.

We take different paths. I am coming from Windows and you are coming from Linux. Yet, here we are and helping each other in the process. FreeBSD is great

You know more about Linux than i do, actually, everyone knows more about Linux than i do. LOL. I just tinker with it from time-to-time. FreeBSD is definitely not Windows or Linux but i really like it. I just have alot to learn. I feel like Windows has narrowed my scope of computing and robbed me of a proper education in this field. I can actually begin to see the makings of Windows whenever i use FreeBSD. I see where they get some of their ideas and i am starting to understand how some of it works. FreeBSD allows me to learn computing properly.

I also taught myself dipterology and archnology. I like to study flies and spiders and i photograph nature whenever i can do so. I have discovered two first records for Germany but noone will publish records from some guy studying at home. LOL. I will have to publish the findings myself. I had my genitalia-based identifications confirmed by experts.

Well, i am going to spend some more time on FreeBSD today and i am going to get a cup of coffee first.

I hope that you have a great day

I will read, and respond, to this shortly.
For now, my "desktop" is getting assembled, slowly but surely. Plenty of frustrations, but nothing I haven't been able to fix. Overall, a profound sense of satisfaction.

 

[thedaemon]

I use cwm as my daily driver, so glad to see someone else. I haven't had to change the permissions of my home folder so I found that odd but nice to see it up.

instead of startx I use a script that runs
xinit ~/.xinitrc -- -nolisten tcp

and have all of my other applications that start up running before the exec cwm line in my .xinitrc.

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I meant that rest is probably necessary after all of this stressful work and you agree that your energy levels were low. Sometimes computer stress can weigh on us and it is always a good idea to take a break from computing.

My -eyes- -totally- agree with you! ..hehe..

yes, i program php, html, css, javascript and svg. I am self-educated. I learn at home in spare time. I started studying php in 2016 and i finally reached an advanced level around 2022. LOL. spare time. I'm thinking of making my own php desktop for use in xorg. I want to load an embedded browser and use php, apache and mysql to operate a desktop environment, merely as a php exercise. But first, i am building a forum for a friend of mine. He has a commercial forum but it is outdated and he is too old to program and he doesn't want to use any other forums. So i am building a new forum based upon the functionality and appearance of his current forum. Large project for one person.

Jesus.. more people want friends like you.. a lot more..

as for the technical details.. ..php desktop? ..if you say so.. (this is greek)

I got as far as php, html, css, mysql/psql.. never touched the fancier stuff. Never took classes for it, but my dad was a proff of the subject so.. ..the website I built is now on an external hard-drive that.. I still retain some hope that when I get the cash to be able to afford professional data-recovery, they'll be able to get it back. :-( ..That was my first encounter with the concept of hdd's not being immortal..

one day i was looking at source code for something on github and i thought that it was a php script, so i double-checked the filename and it was actually a c++ file

..snort.. ;-)

I have Linux mint in VirtualBox and i like Mint. I find most distros of Linux to be horrible and a waste of my time. But Mint is rather nice. Maybe i like Mint the best because Mint with cinnamon dektop is similar to Windows.

I tried Mint. There was something that irritated me about it, I can't remember what. I -think- it might be that I had just gone to all this effort to customize how ubuntu looked, and mint just brought me right back to something that looked like windows. [..and then I got back to focusing on the bsd's..] So, here's to racing at full speed in opposite directions on the one hand, while racing together on the other. How's that for irony.

..will submit this now so it doesn't get lost in a computer seisure..

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I know that some people reach a comfort level with Windows and they give up on anything that isn't pre-configured or easy. I am not one of those Windows users. In fact, i find that Windows is not as important to me as it used to be. Mostly video game emulators and certain software was not available on Linux in the past. I haven't tried Linux since 2010. I see now that most emulators work on Linux now and i can simply use virtualbox with a Windows system for software that is specific to Windows. I am no longer chained to Microsoft Windows. I am ready to move on.

This is a study.. ..giggle.. you sound almost defensive, and yet you have nothing to defend. -You- are the one who helped me figure out my problem. You are clearly not only ready to move on, but already have. Sure you might still use windows for some things.. habits are hard to break. Give yourself some time and you will find other activities to replace the ones that require windows

We take different paths. I am coming from Windows and you are coming from Linux. Yet, here we are and helping each other in the process. FreeBSD is great

Hear hear! -> correction: I started out on windows like 90% of everybody, just like you. (let's say that 9% start out on mac, (..or maybe it's more like 50/50 now..) and the last 1%.. they're the alien species, watching the rest of us, ammused )

You know more about Linux than i do, actually, everyone knows more about Linux than i do. LOL. I just tinker with it from time-to-time. FreeBSD is definitely not Windows or Linux but i really like it. I just have alot to learn. I feel like Windows has narrowed my scope of computing and robbed me of a proper education in this field. I can actually begin to see the makings of Windows whenever i use FreeBSD. I see where they get some of their ideas and i am starting to understand how some of it works. FreeBSD allows me to learn computing properly.

Here is a very extensive discussion compressed into a few lines.. ..the question I'm most curious about is, given all this context, why did you choose freebsd over linux? Linux is, in my understanding, and ubuntu in particular, or is supposed to be, the low-hanging fruit when it comes to escaping from windows/mac. You said something about video-games.. are you telling me, seriously, that there were video-games that were available on freebsd that weren't available on linux? BSD is not for the faint of heart. With the exception of Ghost, there is no bsd that you can install without a lot of blood-sweat-and-tears. As far as I know. I think there is another reason. Either you had/have somebody in your life who pushed you toward it, or.. you're just special

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I also taught myself dipterology and archnology. I like to study flies and spiders and i photograph nature whenever i can do so. I have discovered two first records for Germany but noone will publish records from some guy studying at home. LOL. I will have to publish the findings myself. I had my genitalia-based identifications confirmed by experts.

Ok, that -definitely- confirms it. You are special. You study -flies-? Please tell me you're a geneticist.. my cousin turned the eyes of a fruit-fly from red to green for her phd..

two first records for Germany but noone will publish records from some guy studying at home

Here I think language is a problem. "first records"? For me, a "record" is a vinyl album for playing music. As for "publishing the work of guys studying from home".. that sounds extremely familiar. Welcome to the modern world. ..We can change it, but it'll take a while.

I had my genitalia-based identifications confirmed by experts.

Uh-huh.. ..you realize, right, that this is a public forum? ..I'm trying to imagine the reaction of the average social-group to these disclosures.. and failing.. ..omg, I haven't laughed this hard in..

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

Ok, that -definitely- confirms it. You are special. You study -flies-? Please tell me you're a geneticist.. my cousin turned the eyes of a fruit-fly from red to green for her phd..

Here I think language is a problem. "first records"? For me, a "record" is a vinyl album for playing music. As for "publishing the work of guys studying from home".. that sounds extremely familiar. Welcome to the modern world. ..We can change it, but it'll take a while.

Uh-huh.. ..you realize, right, that this is a public forum? ..I'm trying to imagine the reaction of the average social-group to these disclosures.. and failing.. ..omg, I haven't laughed this hard in..

what time is it? ..19:41. for the reccord, I'm still laughing. this is going to set a reccord. it had damn-well better.. it's bloody-well earned it.. ><

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

what time is it? ..19:41. for the reccord, I'm still laughing. this is going to set a reccord. it had damn-well better.. it's bloody-well earned it.. ><

Ok, I've calmed down now. There is no doubt that biology, as a field, is fascinating, and the simpler you go on the scale, the more chance you have of understanding it. Synthetic biology, and synthetic morphology are on my reading list, though I never expect to make it to them. Flies fly, and tiny reynolds number, and spiders are right up there with the most mechanically complex you can come up with.

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I use cwm as my daily driver, so glad to see someone else. I haven't had to change the permissions of my home folder so I found that odd but nice to see it up.

instead of startx I use a script that runs
xinit ~/.xinitrc -- -nolisten tcp

and have all of my other applications that start up running before the exec cwm line in my .xinitrc.

..fascinating.. ..sounds like we have established two ways of doing the thing. At some point I might test this, and if not, the info is there for somebody else..

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

Ok, I've calmed down now. There is no doubt that biology, as a field, is fascinating, and the simpler you go on the scale, the more chance you have of understanding it. Synthetic biology, and synthetic morphology are on my reading list, though I never expect to make it to them. Flies fly, and tiny reynolds number, and spiders are right up there with the most mechanically complex you can come up with.

It's quite obvious that I don't spend much time hanging out with biologists, otherwise these hobbies of yours wouldn't have caused anything like the reaction they did

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I meant that rest is probably necessary after all of this stressful work and you agree that your energy levels were low. Sometimes computer stress can weigh on us and it is always a good idea to take a break from computing.


yes, i program php, html, css, javascript and svg. I am self-educated. I learn at home in spare time. I started studying php in 2016 and i finally reached an advanced level around 2022. LOL. spare time. I'm thinking of making my own php desktop for use in xorg. I want to load an embedded browser and use php, apache and mysql to operate a desktop environment, merely as a php exercise. But first, i am building a forum for a friend of mine. He has a commercial forum but it is outdated and he is too old to program and he doesn't want to use any other forums. So i am building a new forum based upon the functionality and appearance of his current forum. Large project for one person.

one day i was looking at source code for something on github and i thought that it was a php script, so i double-checked the filename and it was actually a c++ file. I did not realize that php is so similar to c/cpp until that moment. I'd like to learn the basics of both c and c++ now.

I have Linux mint in VirtualBox and i like Mint. I find most distros of Linux to be horrible and a waste of my time. But Mint is rather nice. Maybe i like Mint the best because Mint with cinnamon dektop is similar to Windows.

I know that some people reach a comfort level with Windows and they give up on anything that isn't pre-configured or easy. I am not one of those Windows users. In fact, i find that Windows is not as important to me as it used to be. Mostly video game emulators and certain software was not available on Linux in the past. I haven't tried Linux since 2010. I see now that most emulators work on Linux now and i can simply use virtualbox with a Windows system for software that is specific to Windows. I am no longer chained to Microsoft Windows. I am ready to move on.

We take different paths. I am coming from Windows and you are coming from Linux. Yet, here we are and helping each other in the process. FreeBSD is great

You know more about Linux than i do, actually, everyone knows more about Linux than i do. LOL. I just tinker with it from time-to-time. FreeBSD is definitely not Windows or Linux but i really like it. I just have alot to learn. I feel like Windows has narrowed my scope of computing and robbed me of a proper education in this field. I can actually begin to see the makings of Windows whenever i use FreeBSD. I see where they get some of their ideas and i am starting to understand how some of it works. FreeBSD allows me to learn computing properly.

I also taught myself dipterology and archnology. I like to study flies and spiders and i photograph nature whenever i can do so. I have discovered two first records for Germany but noone will publish records from some guy studying at home. LOL. I will have to publish the findings myself. I had my genitalia-based identifications confirmed by experts.

Well, i am going to spend some more time on FreeBSD today and i am going to get a cup of coffee first.

I hope that you have a great day

..In case it isn't obvious, don't depend on the notifications to collect all my responses. Read through the thread. I wasn't totally sure how I should organize it.

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I meant that rest is probably necessary after all of this stressful work and you agree that your energy levels were low. Sometimes computer stress can weigh on us and it is always a good idea to take a break from computing.


yes, i program php, html, css, javascript and svg. I am self-educated. I learn at home in spare time. I started studying php in 2016 and i finally reached an advanced level around 2022. LOL. spare time. I'm thinking of making my own php desktop for use in xorg. I want to load an embedded browser and use php, apache and mysql to operate a desktop environment, merely as a php exercise. But first, i am building a forum for a friend of mine. He has a commercial forum but it is outdated and he is too old to program and he doesn't want to use any other forums. So i am building a new forum based upon the functionality and appearance of his current forum. Large project for one person.

one day i was looking at source code for something on github and i thought that it was a php script, so i double-checked the filename and it was actually a c++ file. I did not realize that php is so similar to c/cpp until that moment. I'd like to learn the basics of both c and c++ now.

I have Linux mint in VirtualBox and i like Mint. I find most distros of Linux to be horrible and a waste of my time. But Mint is rather nice. Maybe i like Mint the best because Mint with cinnamon dektop is similar to Windows.

I know that some people reach a comfort level with Windows and they give up on anything that isn't pre-configured or easy. I am not one of those Windows users. In fact, i find that Windows is not as important to me as it used to be. Mostly video game emulators and certain software was not available on Linux in the past. I haven't tried Linux since 2010. I see now that most emulators work on Linux now and i can simply use virtualbox with a Windows system for software that is specific to Windows. I am no longer chained to Microsoft Windows. I am ready to move on.

We take different paths. I am coming from Windows and you are coming from Linux. Yet, here we are and helping each other in the process. FreeBSD is great

You know more about Linux than i do, actually, everyone knows more about Linux than i do. LOL. I just tinker with it from time-to-time. FreeBSD is definitely not Windows or Linux but i really like it. I just have alot to learn. I feel like Windows has narrowed my scope of computing and robbed me of a proper education in this field. I can actually begin to see the makings of Windows whenever i use FreeBSD. I see where they get some of their ideas and i am starting to understand how some of it works. FreeBSD allows me to learn computing properly.

I also taught myself dipterology and archnology. I like to study flies and spiders and i photograph nature whenever i can do so. I have discovered two first records for Germany but noone will publish records from some guy studying at home. LOL. I will have to publish the findings myself. I had my genitalia-based identifications confirmed by experts.

Well, i am going to spend some more time on FreeBSD today and i am going to get a cup of coffee first.

I hope that you have a great day

I obviously have to ask you what it is about flies that fascinates you so much. I mean, most people just swat them, and it ends there. I think, if I were truly honest, I would have to include myself in that group. Perhaps useful for artistic inspiration, or as a stepping-stone in a synthetic morphology crusade. If you ask a thousand people, probably more like 10 000, I think you'll be lucky to find 1 person who answers "flies" as their hobby, or one of their hobbies. So hearing it from your point of view will definitely be educational

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

I obviously have to ask you what it is about flies that fascinates you so much. I mean, most people just swat them, and it ends there. I think, if I were truly honest, I would have to include myself in that group. Perhaps useful for artistic inspiration, or as a stepping-stone in a synthetic morphology crusade. If you ask a thousand people, probably more like 10 000, I think you'll be lucky to find 1 person who answers "flies" as their hobby, or one of their hobbies. So hearing it from your point of view will definitely be educational

Wow, I did not expect to be thinking about flies today. ..technically speaking, this also probably isn't the place to be discussing it. The voice inside me is telling me that we're probably breaking forum rules with all this. I also don't know how to delete posts that are already posted. At least this isn't hi-jacking the thread of somebody -else-.. Perhaps there is a way of cutting this discussion, placing it in some kind of fork.. -I just wanted to observe that I have realized that a dragon-fly is, apparently, technically, a fly. Whether they are flies in more than name... Regardless, they are fascinating..

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

..testing post deletion.. ..test failed. empty message was not accepted.. :-(

 

[mikethe1wheelnut]

Wow, I did not expect to be thinking about flies today. ..technically speaking, this also probably isn't the place to be discussing it. The voice inside me is telling me that we're probably breaking forum rules with all this. I also don't know how to delete posts that are already posted. At least this isn't hi-jacking the thread of somebody -else-.. Perhaps there is a way of cutting this discussion, placing it in some kind of fork.. -I just wanted to observe that I have realized that a dragon-fly is, apparently, technically, a fly. Whether they are flies in more than name... Regardless, they are fascinating..

Fascinating, yes. I also must express nervousness about diving into too many deep extended conversations. I can too easily see myself getting totally distracted, and my projects coming to a grinding halt. ..and I can't let that happen. I'm already getting yelled at by at least one colleague for over-extending myself. The world teeters on the brink.. from what I understand, flies might be the last ones to go. Let's re-focus, and we can continue this when we are pretty sure that flies (and spiders) will be only two of billions of species populating this beautiful planet for many years to come