Keyboard Odyssey - The Impossible Search for Perfection

Yeah, I can't do that. I have strong muscle memory. If I were to get used to an ergonomic keyboard like that on my desktop then I could not work on my laptop without strong disuption.
Same here. As I sit here typing this, it's the difference between "elbows in" and "elbows out". My natural position is elbows out, which puts fingers/wrist on a line that works with standard flat keyboards. If I pull my elbows into my sides everything shifts to a "MS Natural" or a split keyboard as msplsh talks about. Height of keyboard in relation to shoulder height also affects my hand position.

This is a good thread: to me it shows the importance of having a high quality keyboard that fits "you". Spend extra money because your wrists/hands/fingers will thank you.
 
I got a standing desk just because being able to fiddle with the height of the desk to dial in keyboard & shoulder height, instead of adjusting everything else, was easier.
That is a very good solution. Most people don't realize how things change as you move hands, elbows, wrists. Unless you play golf or fly fish; then you learn quickly that "moving my hand in a straight line is a complex motion" and not forcing anything means less pain.
 
Speaking of cleaning.
I have good experiences with
  • air duster sprays
  • swiffer dusters (I have one to hand on my desktop. "housewife" ?)
  • cyber clean
 
old, cheap
doesn't matter.
As you pointed out, this is not a competition for the "coolest" one.
It's about to exchange and collect ideas how improve work efficiency on the most important UI.

I saw some splitted ones.
But that's even new to me.
Thanks for sharing.

I think those splitted ones are only a real use for anybody who is capable of typewriting.
There is btw. a recommendable program available under packages, which trains it:
klavaro

good point btw to bring up standing desks! ?
 

Plain old, cheap, Freestyle 2. You can get accessories to crank the tenting up to obnoxious angles. I haven't the money or the need to try out their curved ones.
I am also a fan of Kinesis keyboards. I have two Freestyle Pros for work, one with each kind of switch. I prefer the louder one, but that does not make you popular with your colleagues. I have a tenting kit and palm rests. They're good, but I can't decide if I like the keyboard better with or without the kits.

At home I have two Logitech G413s like Alain De Vos . I have less room for keyboards at home, and I don't type as much.

I started getting into ergo keyboards when my wrists started hurting about 10 years ago. Microsoft Natural keyboards were my gateway drug (hey MS makes decent peripherals. Their software is another matter...).

I also got a tip from a colleague years ago. Use your left hand (right hand if you're left-handed) for the mouse at work. It takes a surprisingly short time to get used to that, and it really evens the wear on the ol' wrist hardware.
 
After being disappointed with various "mechanical" keyboards (their lifespan nowadays is barely an year, before the double-press issues begin; the old ones are not to my liking as well) I have settled with https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/mx-keys-wireless-keyboard.920-009294.html. USB/Bluetooth, has builtin battery (that lasts really long if backlight is turned off). Some of the keys are placed weirdly (e.g. scroll-lock needs Fn key), but I got used to it over the years.
 
Use your left hand (right hand if you're left-handed) for the mouse at work.
Thanks for sharing your experiences here.
Those are valuable ideas and experiences I like to collect here.
According to the quote, I just want to throw in additionally,
I became a fan of trackballs.
 
I once played with the idea of converting an old Android tablet into a bluetooth keyboard.

I liked the idea of combining touchscreen, backlight, and bluetooth into a keyboard that can be used virtually anywhere.

Unfortunately, the idea went nowhere, because typing was rather awkward at best.

Even if Bluetooth works, even if the keyboard looks and works OK - trying to type on a 10.1-inch touchscreen is awkward, because most keyboards are 430-450mm (17-18 inches) wide, so nearly double the width of a 10.1 inch tablet.

Not to mention that touchscreens can be finicky, and if you drag your fingers, that can get mis-interpreted as a different gesture by the tablet.

It was a fun little adventure, I learned the downsides, decided not to go down that rabbit hole any more.
 
Since i was born all my keyboards where azerty.
Currently i can no longer work without azerty (ok for recovery querty).
But the keys are imprinted in my brain.
Even if other layouts would be more ergonomicly.
 
i can no longer work without azerty
Don't know what you mean exactly.

As I am a foreigner in a country with other (weird) kb-layout,
I always had my own keyboard at work.
It was one of things on a new job's first day:
plug-off installed kb (bring it back to IT or store it in a save place),
plug-in my own personal one,
et voilà!

If you don't share your computer with others,
I don't see no reason why an employer shall not allow this.

However:
But the keys are imprinted in my brain.
I know that.
But I also learned even with >50 you still can learn.
It's just a matter of training,
and of course, what's more worth to you resp cost you less ?
 
The Flux keyboard on Kickstarter here is a new take on the screen-on-keys concept. It goes the other direction, keys-on-screen. The only thing I don't like about it so far is that it needs software for more advanced features, and that software is currently only available for Windows and Mac. The keyboard itself, however, is supposed to work on anything that normal usb keyboards work on.
 
I have two keyboards, both mechanical, bought in 2018 : Leopold FC900R PD Gray (in use), Cherry G80-3000LSCRB-2 (reserved).
The first weighs 1.2 kg, the second - 0.9 kg.
The first one sounds like an IBM System/360 console (with a metallic clang) ;)
 

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The idea of this thread is to help anybody still not quite satisfied with his current keyboard on his quest for the perfect kb.


I use two external keyboards - they are:

Wired USB ThinkPad SK-8855 - layout is the same as on my ThinkPad W520/X220/T420s laptops:

ThinkPad-SK-8855-Large.jpg


Wireless (USB dongle) and Wired (when attached via USB cable) Motospeed GK82 mechanical keyboard:

GK82.light.jpg

GK82.jpg


I am ANSI layout compatible only.

Hope that helps.
 
At the moment I am using "Das Keyboard X50Q", which despite the German sounding name is an American brand based in Austin, Texas, but the stuff actually is manufactured in China. So this thing comes with a big "Designed in Texas" on its label underneath and much smaller "Made in China" printed beneath it.

The most notable difference from its competitors is that they are not using Cherry switches, but something called "Gamma Zulu" from a Japanese company called Omron, which are custom made only for this brand. They do claim that these are more durable than other switches, whatever, 50 million vs. 100 million per switch lifetime is something either way most will never reach.

So if you don't like Cherry, maybe this thing is worth trying out for you. I have been using this keyboard now for roughly two years, and cannot recommend it.

The big disadvantage of not using Cherry switches is that the keycaps aftermarket for this keyboard is really, really tiny. In case you want alternative keycaps, well good luck with that, you are more or less stuck with what the manufacturer does offer because Cherry caps don't fit on Gamma Zulu at all. Bummer.

Also the standard keycaps are of the ABS type instead PBT, meaning that they will deteriorate over time. Some letters on my key caps are already unreadable by now.

Also several characters, including space bar, are already affected by double pressing, which is something a mechanical keyboard with that price tag should not suffer.

Since even mechanical keyboards nowadays are throwaway products and therefore most of them high priced junk I guess it is in the long term cheaper to get a nice keyboard with a rubberdome or butterfly mechanism which roughly lasts as long as a mechanical keyboard until double pressing stuff starts to happen there. You will actually safe lots of money using this approach.

011-full-keyboard-shot.jpg
 
Das Keyboard
Thank you very much for your detailed review.
I never had one of those myself, but stumbled over them several times.
Quite pricy, thought they were high quality brand.
50 million vs. 100 million per switch
Cherry MX specs are the same.
(Again: just because I was unsatisfied with my MX 1.0 kb doesn't mean the switches are bad;
they are not;
in fact C's MX are really high quality.
But I'm also (always) looking for alternatives.
Especially since I had a taste of Cherry's brown ML switches I know, it can be even better than MX;
at least to me.
I will also checkout the Logitech kb beyond others Alain mentioned.

But this thread shall not be for me only.
The whole matter is very personal as nearly all posters intimated.

I just needed to make some start,
and at the same time leave some space for an open exchange,
which so far works pretty good.
Thanks to all participants so far.
I hope we will see some more.

However,
as some here already pointed out additionally:
A good kb is not just the switches and the tactile feeling alone:
Some letters on my key caps are already unreadable by now.
Also several characters, including space bar, are already affected by double pressing, which is something a mechanical keyboard with that price tag should not suffer.
That's absolutely no go.
Not at this price range as I recall the prices I saw for "Das Keyboard".
Since even mechanical keyboards nowadays are throwaway products and therefore most of them high priced junk I guess it is in the long term cheaper to get a nice keyboard with a rubberdome or butterfly mechanism which roughly lasts as long as a mechanical keyboard until double pressing stuff starts to happen there. You will actually safe lots of money using this approach.
zirias@ also already pointed in that direction.
That's exactly one of the main targets I want to figure out with this thread.

Because on the one hand, of course a keyboard as a mechanical unit will be worn out some day.
But there is cheap crap - even high priced cheap crap - and there is engineered quality.
At least I hope so.
Since on the other hand I want to keep the waste to a reasonable minimum,
and can, and yet will not believe that there only is consumer junk on the market,
but no real high quality products.

When I walk through eletcronics shops ("radioshack") I also see all the similar looking gaming keyboards,
decoying by lots of additional media-key-feature-, and colorful blinky-blinky-fiddle-faddle. ?
That does not mean they are all cheap crap.
But to figure out what's not, and wich ones are not shall be the point here.

One of the points I already learned by this thread for me is
Lots of real pros are here.
That's what I wanted to prevent with my start post:
Not to get an endless parade of all proudly posting their colorful illuminated toys.
My worries were reasonless.
No one talks consumer junk! :cool: ? :beer:

So let's find the quality stuff,
and sort out the crap! ?
 
Since even mechanical keyboards nowadays are throwaway products and therefore most of them high priced junk I guess it is in the long term cheaper to get a nice keyboard with a rubberdome or butterfly mechanism which roughly lasts as long as a mechanical keyboard until double pressing stuff starts to happen there. You will actually safe lots of money using this approach.
Butterfly keyboards are a hard pass for me. Did anyone besides Apple use that switch design? I have one laptop with a butterfly keyboard left, and it's plugged in to an external keyboard. The key travel on those makes old-skool chiclet keyboards seem nice, and they break if you look at them too hard. It's also basically impossible to replace switches without wrecking the keyboard. Really shameful that they put those on $3k laptops.

They're also the only kind of keyboard I've had break on me from just regular use. I must have a light touch or something. Even the $15 Dell keyboards I used to buy didn't break on me from normal use.
 
G80.jpg


This is my Cherry G80, this one is fitted with black MX switches. These were being sold off on ebay some time ago and I picked up a couple brand new for pocket money (non-english keycaps). It's a nice keyboard, not as well made as IBM, there is a small amount of flex, but I actually prefer the feel of the key switches for touch-typing compared to the model M buckling-spring design. I use an external ps/2 to usb convertor dongle with this keyboard.

I was interested to read this article last week about a project to make a new batch of IBM PC model F keyboards:-
G80-back.jpg


This is the label on the back if anyone wants the details, I expect they still make them.

The cherry black MX are fast and accurate keyswitches, one of the best I've found for touch-typing.
 
i broke 3 apple alu keyboards by spilling water on them. one has recovered after one year of drying.
i also have an apple alu wireless one (2nd gen 2007+) which i don't use because it has a fscking Fn key in the bottom left corner
other than the above if found them nicer than a vanilla msft or logitech kbd
 
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