GTK to remove X11 backend

I don't even know how and why? For some reason the script doesn't work for me.
# gtk-config --version
Bash: 
sh: gtk-config: not found
I have to watch through
# pkg info gtkX
 
eternal_noob said:
Old news. That's why i always say that one should get used to Wayland.
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No, no, no and no!!!!!
It's still completely unusable for me. I feel Gtk guys are tooooooooo stubid.
Currently, at least for my use-cases, Wayland is still pre-pre-pre-pre-pre Alpha state. Something like ancient X11 (XFree86 era) which required proprietaly (and not bundled with hardwares) Accelerated X or worse, Like initial Windoze95.

Wayland must be a platform that all X11-dependent ports to run sanely on it just as on X11 to be considered pre-production (RC) state. It seems to be quite far way.
 
cracauer@ said:
Good heavens no.

Upgrading an app to a new GTK version is hard work. I have have seen multiple instance in which the app gpt much worse in the same period.
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I think Gtk too easily disposes APIs of previous version, making upgrade to newer major version of Gtk something like porting to brand-new OS, or different toolkits.

For example, mail/sylpheed still sticks on Gtk2.
Its variant (fork) mail/claws-mail until 3.x sticks on Gtk2 and switched to Gtk3 starting from 4.0, but 4.x (currently 4.3.0) has problem with its GUI (not seen on 3.x and mail/sylpheed).
I first tried mail/claws-mail 4.x as Gtk2 was going to be deprecated, but as its GUI is problematic (modifying column width of summary-view pane causes abnormal behavior such as suddenly becomes tooooo large), trying 3.x (can be easily reconfigured with choosing GTK2 option instead of GTK3) turned out to be sane as mail/sylpheed is. So I'm still using mail/sylpheed.
 
I have a program that is important to me that uses GTK+-1.x. Talk about a pain in the allerwertesten. xzgv

There is a port to GTK+-2.x but various bits of functionality have been screwed up.
 
T-Aoki said:
No, no, no and no!!!!!
It's still completely unusable for me. I feel Gtk guys are tooooooooo stubid.
Currently, at least for my use-cases, Wayland is still pre-pre-pre-pre-pre Alpha state. Something like ancient X11 (XFree86 era) which required proprietaly (and not bundled with hardwares) Accelerated X or worse, Like initial Windoze95.

Wayland must be a platform that all X11-dependent ports to run sanely on it just as on X11 to be considered pre-production (RC) state. It seems to be quite far way.
Click to expand...
Honestly I had the same feelings you have. Then I actually tried it and I was EXTREMELY surprised how well it works on FreeBSD. My setup is SDDM -> labwc -> sfwbar . It works perfectly, absolutely stable and faster than X11 was ever been on my system.
 
fmc000 said:
Honestly I had the same feelings you have. Then I actually tried it and I was EXTREMELY surprised how well it works on FreeBSD. My setup is SDDM -> labwc -> sfwbar . It works perfectly, absolutely stable and faster than X11 was ever been on my system.
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I dislike tiling windows, so what I tried are stacking compositors (not yet for labwc, but x11-wm/wayfire and x11-wm/wlmaker, based on x11-toolkits/wlroots, anyway), only on FreeBSD.
They hesitated to start if the user's primary group is wheel, refuses to run with Japanese IMs (even for the same compositor/app, different configurations are proposed on Internet [basically for any of Linux distors], and neither worked for me, even if I created test user whose primary group is not wheel).
 
bumpyhead said:
there are three versions of gtk installed on my system, is there a way to upgrade to a "gtk4 only" system?
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Almost impossible. Take GIMP for example, it's taking a decade to move from GTK-2 to GTK-3... I use "galculator" as my graphic calculator and it's still GTK-2, I will probably look for a GTK-3 / 4 app when GIMP-3 is released so that I won't have any more GTK-2 app installed.
 
T-Aoki said:
I dislike tiling windows, so what I tried are stacking compositors (not yet for labwc, but x11-wm/wayfire and x11-wm/wlmaker, based on x11-toolkits/wlroots, anyway), only on FreeBSD.
They hesitated to start if the user's primary group is wheel, refuses to run with Japanese IMs (even for the same compositor/app, different configurations are proposed on Internet [basically for any of Linux distors], and neither worked for me, even if I created test user whose primary group is not wheel).
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Tiling is not my thing too. I also tried wayfire and I hated it with a passion. Honestly I can't speak with regards to Japanese IMs, I'm Italian and in all my systems I use English locale for maminum compatibility.
 
For Japanese users, Japanese IMs are mandatory.
Requiring configurations for specific apps are OK (annoying, though), unless they conflict each other. But (I'm still confused, though) it seems that some apps require old text input APIs but some requires new and both conflicts each other, as far as I could find on the net (lost track for many of them, with bookmark already doesn't work or forgot to bookmark). Unless it is resolved, Wayland is unusable for me.
 
I think some definition needs to be done for "tiling windowmanager". I use WindowMaker, by strict definition it is a tiling windowmanager because new windows are tried to put in open space. But it does not resize every window to make them all fit on the screen at the same time.
"awesome" is another technically tiling but more like WindowMaker.

Toolkits/Frameworks like GTK, Qt and even XLib typically go through a lot of evolution between versions. Fundamental paradigims ("how things work") and APIs can change and if they change a lot, rewriting applications becomes nontrivial so we have GTK2, GTK3 etc.

GTK-N drops support for Xorg/Xlib, so what happens? Fork, applications don't move to the new version etc. Basically "Open Source, new boss same as the old boss"
 
T-Aoki said:
For Japanese users, Japanese IMs are mandatory.
Requiring configurations for specific apps are OK (annoying, though), unless they conflict each other. But (I'm still confused, though) it seems that some apps require old text input APIs but some requires new and both conflicts each other, as far as I could find on the net (lost track for many of them, with bookmark already doesn't work or forgot to bookmark). Unless it is resolved, Wayland is unusable for me.
Click to expand...
I learned something new today, didn't know this was a problem. Also it looks like even bleeding-edge Linux distributions suffer from the same issue: Japanese issue with Fedora 40
 
Looks like the future will be with Wayland then, I just hope the future will definitely be ready for everyone because right now I often read comments from users that were kind of "forced" to make compromise, some of them even switched back to X11.
I am not against progress, the fact that development goes to Wayland and not Xorg makes me think that Wayland should be the next thing to use, but on the other hand even after more than 15years it looks like very difficult to have a more than okay "final product", the devs need to hurry or there will be a chaos when everybody will move to Wayland at once.
For now I am still on X11, but I am considering Wayland as my next step, Sway precisely, but I will switch to it when everything will be fine(if it's possible?).
 
fmc000 said:
I learned something new today, didn't know this was a problem. Also it looks like even bleeding-edge Linux distributions suffer from the same issue: Japanese issue with Fedora 40
Click to expand...
Once these are overcome (maybe with some instabilities as usual), I can consider Wayland as beta state. Until then, Wayland is still alpha or pre-...pre-alpha. Of course, not limited with Japanese. Korean(Hangul), Arabic (and other BiDi-reqiring languages) and Chinese (Both Taiwan and continental) should be handled properly at least as X11.
 
And I consider Wayland to be intermediate thing.
As VMs become common nowadays and at least some people are struggling GPU passthrough, my thought is that UEFI (or its successors, like UEFI succeeded legagy BIOS) should grab GPUs and ALL OS'es is mandated to use runtime service of it. In this case, all GUIs of Wayland, X11 (X12 or above?) and all others (including Windoze) become "wrappers" and for users, some windows are of FreeBSD with X11, some are of Windoze, some are of Haiku,... , mean, all windows of running OS'es on the same computers coexist on the same screen with their own GUIs/CUIs in allowed window. Currently just a dream.
 
fmc000 said:
GTK exists only because the Qt licensing scheme has always been problematic. If Trolltech decided for an OSI-compliant license from the start this duality between Qt and GTK would have never existed.
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Quoted for truth. Mostly because another factor is that some people didn't want to go C++.

Staying with C for complex GUIs can be problematic, as witnessed by the examples in this thread.
 
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