Frame.Work 16 (Framework 16) - FreeBSD scratch spot

rotaecho

rotaecho

Well, I must be a masochist, I rather get FreeBSD on this laptop than a Linux distro. I'm a retired *NIX/OpenSource engineer and this is my hobby/project to get my daily OSX laptop migrated to FreeBSD while my current daily works; I've done a lot of FreeBSD/Linux to Solaris and the other way migrations in the past.

I just need the basics working;

Keyboard Input
Touchpad
graphics
Wifi
Bluetooth audio

Sounds simple enough huh?

I'm not a huge Linux distro fan. The bloat and creep is as bad as Windows now. I always preferred Solaris x86/SPARC as FreeBSD till OSX intel came around. I ran Solaris 10 on my Acer Ferrari as a daily for years back in the day. I'm a huge ZFS fan.

That said, I recently purchased a Frame.Work 16 laptop (AMD Ryzen 7). I didn't get the external GPU, figure I'd work with the base setup for now.

The biggest complaint I've heard is the stock network card with the AMD motherboard setup. So, I decided to get an Intel AX210 card instead. I have also read that the Atheros AR9462 (https://xyinn.org/blog/freebsd/ar9462) from ThinkPenguin works out of the box, but it doesn't have Bluetooth support. So, not sure if that'd require another card to get bluetooth back.

I'm also using the HCL from: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops/Framework_Laptop

Another resource I found was FreeBSD On Frame.Work GitHub Repo

​

Any other resources/links for information to get stuff setup or any Trips/Tricks let me know please.

It should be here within the week to start poking around on it :)
 
Works fine for me as a daily driver for quite some time, for more info see: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/framework-16-ryzen-9-7940hs-and-freebsd-14-0-release.92421

Back then I just needed the UART fix to install (see link in this thread above) and disable the TPC chip in the BIOS, maybe the UART fix is no longer necessary with 14.2.

For WIFI I use an USB dongle but you could also replace the WIFI module with an AX200 module which should be supported by FreeBSD (I have decided to hold out until the default WIFI card is supported by FreeBSD). Alternatively net/wifibox should work as well.

Bluetooth might be difficult, touchpad works fine, accelerated graphics is supported by graphics/drm-61-kmod (but note you need to compile the port yourself at the moment, see the 14.2 EOL/package kernel ABI incompatibility discussions)
 
So, stupid dumb question I'm sure, but I'm hitting a road block.

I'm coming from a 2012 Mac with OSX (10.15.7).

I've downloaded the 14.2 and 15.0 memstick img files and have tried to do the normal dd of the image.

i.e.

dd if=./FreeBSD-14.2-RELEASE-amd64-memstick of=/dev/disk2 bs=1m

I've verified the disk with:

diskutil list

and have unmounted the disk with

diskutil unmountDisk /dev/disk2

When I try to boot with F12 in the boot menu it just borks and says not bootable.

So, I tried the ISO way and used Etcher to the USB and still no love.

However, these same ISO Etcher method with Ubuntu and Linux Mint with their ISO images, and both boot no problem.

The documentation here: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/bsdinstall/

Really isn't cutting the mustard trying to resolve this issue with only dd as the reference.

Is there some other information I am missing, or is the OSX dd defective?LOL
 
rotaecho said:
I must be a masochist, I rather get FreeBSD
Click to expand...
I am a simple computer user, way less experience on computers than your background; I find FreeBSD very simple to install - at least it's all comprehandable, logical, and learnable - worth to learn it.

rotaecho said:
a Linux distro.
Click to expand...
THAT's masochism! 😂

No, seriously:
rotaecho said:
I always preferred Solaris x86/SPARC
Click to expand...
With the right desktop environment/window manager - I just don't offhand know which one particular, but there is at least one look and feel exactly like - you will get your beloved Sun Sparc Solaris (I understand that love) back on a modern machine, and it will feel more authentic than any Linux.

As it seems you already figured out WLAN, and BlueTooth may be a tricky thing; but as I understand your first post right, you already have alternatives ready, and being flexible.

It's doable (I've done it 😁) - there must be something silly, simply overseen somewhere, only.

However, first things first:
1st: get some FreeBSD on your machine at all (shall last 5 minutes, normally - okay, okay maybe 10 :cool:)
2nd: install some nice stuff, like X.org, and a Solaris-like WM (or another one)
3rd: Welcome to FreeBSD

1st:
rotaecho said:
or is the OSX dd defective?
Click to expand...
To me that sounds plausible. Since my wife's latest MacBook Pro (the 1st with the M1) has shown weird behaviour on what could formerly called 'unix behaviour'...*cough*
No, seriously: I never had any issues with FreeBSD's images, ever. (you got it from the official site?)
So, what went wrong?
To me there are at the moment two possible reasons:

1. You USB stick wasn't prepared correctly.
2. You laptop BIOS settings won't let you boot the stick.

First you may not use anything but a RELEASE version (that was 14.2 at the moment), anything else, STABLE, CURRENT, 15?...are different developing state projects on future releases - not ment for working reliably. You may play with such later if you like; but if you want a reliable machine just for usage with the fewest need to tinker with you'd better use RELEASE, only.

I don't know what might went wrong while you prepared the stick, you may check:
- ensure you downloaded the right image for your machine
- your stick was properly cleaned before you copied the image (dd if=/dev/zero/ ....)
- (By your background needless to ask you did not dd'ed a .xz file, but the .img, unpacked it first, of course. (Well, to me it seems there must be something that simple.))
- try another stick (model); sometimes sticks are simply defect, or for whatever reasons not bootable at all (seldom, but I had one, or two of such)

2. Check you BIOS settings
There's lot of 'security' crap in BIOS that prevents booting from another source than the preinstalled internal disk by default, you need to turn that off first. And of course let BIOS check USB ports at boot, and allow booting from it.

We get you on the horse :cool:
 
First question I have is; Have you installed FreeBSD via memstick on the FW16? If so, what procedure did you do? I have BIOS 3.05 and I don't see anywhere to change EFI settings for booting.

I think I stated that I've used the same process on similar Linux distros and it works for them, so I don't think it's my method of doing memstick unless like I said; dd is borked on OSX.

Going about it with an external DVD player to install, seems VERY early and mid 90s in todays age.

I'm getting my images from: https://download.freebsd.org/

Thanks for any insight one can give on "how" they did it.
 
I guess my reply didn't take.

I'm getting my images from: https://download.freebsd.org/

I've tried 14.0, 14.1, and 14.2 and 15 in all the CURRENT & STABLE branches on both MEMSTICK as DVD ISO, both same results.

The only literal thing i can think of is OSX dd is borked, because I've been turning myself blue installing it every "easy" method I know how or have used in the past, as have read online along with the FreeBSD docs.

The FW16 BIOS has zero modification for EFI boot, so nothing can be done there.

It'd make zero sense having to run FreeBSD, if the only way is via an optical DVD drive. that's too mid90s for me to bother with FreeBSD if that's the case LOL.

I'll install Ubuntu on the FW16; and try DD from the laptop itself and try to reinstall via a "Linux DD", as Ubuntu/Mint installed no problem.

But if Linux DD doesn't do the trick, that's the end of the road for me on this install. Shouldn't be a nightmare to least get the OS on the box haha

Hell, that's part of the, "I need to recover my box on disaster", and right now I'd be days SOL trying to figure a simple thing as burning a FreeBSD image to USB haha
 
rotaecho - FWIW - The Raspberry Pi Imager is available as a .dmg. You can use it to write a memstick, USB drive, et al.
Just select 'custom image', navigate to location file to use, select device, say "no" to RPi stuff, select "ok".
It "just works". Good Luck.
 
I'll give that a shot. Using BIOS 3.05 on the FW16, I just tried the suggested dd for the memstick under Ubuntu (comes up as /dev/sda for me) and same result. There's next to zero EFI customization in the BIOS, so not much I can do there.

FW16 tries to boot, but gives error: "EFI USB Boot Failed", but I see all the partitions fine on the usb stick to boot when I look at it under Linux. It "looks" bootable from a GPT and partition table layout.

I'll try that RPI Imager, but if that fails, I'm considering it a bug between FreeBSD EFI & FW16 (latest BIOS).

I've installed thousands of Solaris & Linux laptops in the past, to know this looking more a bug or special workaround than, "just works".

Off to the next attempt!
 
sorry, simply tried to help. I've never seen anything like that, cannot imagine where the problem actually is, but in very simply things sometimes overseen even by pros, so I tried to rule them out, as I said I have no other explanation for that, and not you give up on FreeBSD, since I cannot imagine that's the cause of the problem.
Anyway:
peace out.
 
RPI imager, did the process sucessful for FreeBSD 14.2 AMD64 memstick as DVD ISO and 15.0 CURRENT memstick.

It "looks" proper under Ubuntu Linux looking at the memstick.

Both fail also under the FW16 with BIOS 3.05 with EFI Boot Error.

Well, something is clearly off. Either in the BIOS settings (no idea what though since real basic on the boot), or BIOS too new for EFI boot with FreeBSD or whatever.

But three solid days fiddling, and so far my results have been real poor.

One can beat their head into a wall only so much before moving on, and till something concrete comes up, guess off to Linux I go which I'm not really eager about.

Oh well, maybe FreeBSD 18?LOL It maybe will work/install then haha
 
Maturin said:
sorry, simply tried to help. I've never seen anything like that, cannot imagine where the problem actually is, but in very simply things sometimes overseen even by pros, so I tried to rule them out, as I said I have no other explanation for that, and not you give up on FreeBSD, since I cannot imagine that's the cause of the problem.
Anyway:
peace out.
Click to expand...

Yah, it's a real bummer. I appreciate the help. It's a real shame, I was really excited to get it running as, I've been reading of others who have made progress.

But damn if I know how they did it. This is a hobby in retirement. So far it's not looking realistic to go FreeBSD on the FW16 least for me at this time.
 
The comment about the bios struck me. I had a beast of a time ages ago with a Gigabyte board and FreeBSD. The problem Gigabyte/AMI bios was implemented (U)EFI poorly. I've since set that board to exclude EFI rather than 'auto'.

Throwing it out there.
 
SirDice said:
rotaecho I think you got confused and posted your reply to the wrong thread?
Click to expand...

Kinda? Been fighting every way to Sunday to get a FreeBSD image to attempt to boot on a FW16 laptop without an EFI BOOT Error. You read about folks doing it in these forums as online. But damn if I can figure how.

Like, to the point, I'm questioning the USB install process or a bug in the BIOS.

I've just installed FreeBSD 14.0, 14.1, 14.2, and 15.0 memstick.img and the DD has failed everytime; from OSX and Ubuntu; stick looks fine though on partition layout etc. Then I tried to load the ISO using RasberryPi Imager, as Etcher, same result.

So, it's likely the laptop, but others have installed FreeBSD on it, but damn if I can figure how they did it other than a PXE install.

Just frustrated I guess is it.

I'll be attempting the DVD install, but the EFI USB boot issues are driving me mad and would like to figure "why".

This maybe not the best "thread", but it was one of the few talking about getting FreeBSD installed via USB sticks.
 
digifuzzy said:
The comment about the bios struck me. I had a beast of a time ages ago with a Gigabyte board and FreeBSD. The problem Gigabyte/AMI bios was implemented (U)EFI poorly. I've since set that board to exclude EFI rather than 'auto'.

Throwing it out there.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking it's a BIOS bug myself. Unfortunately, there's no way that i can see to disable EFI boot. I'll dive back into it again maybe I missed it.
 
It's likely a bug in the firmware implementation of the FW16 itself, not much FreeBSD could do about it.

Driver bundles remain un-updated for years after their initial release. BIOS updates go through long and confusing beta processes, keeping users from getting feature improvements, bug fixes, and security updates. In its community support forums, Framework employees, including founder and CEO Nirav Patel, have acknowledged these issues and promised fixes but have remained inconsistent and vague about actual timelines.
Click to expand...
arstechnica.com

Framework’s software and firmware have been a mess, but it’s working on them

New features, security updates, and Linux support are all on a long to-do list.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
 
This doesn't bode well:
Framework has been trying, but it keeps running into issues. A beta 3.06 BIOS update with the promised improvements for the 12th-gen Intel Framework Laptop was posted back in December of 2022, but a final version was never released. The newer 3.08 BIOS beta entered testing in January 2024 but still gave users some problems. Users would go for weeks or months without any communication from anyone at Framework.
Click to expand...
But if you can get your hands on that 3.08 beta it's probably worth a shot.

Have you tried asking on their support forums? Perhaps it's a known issue. Although I wouldn't hold my breath in the mean time:
The result is multiple long forum threads of frustrated users asking for updates, interspersed with not-untrue but unsatisfying responses from Framework employees (some version of "we're a small company" is one of the most common).
Click to expand...
 
digifuzzy said:
The comment about the bios struck me. I had a beast of a time ages ago with a Gigabyte board and FreeBSD. The problem Gigabyte/AMI bios was implemented (U)EFI poorly. I've since set that board to exclude EFI rather than 'auto'.

Throwing it out there.
Click to expand...
I have a Gigabyte x570 UD, and it works fine...

rotaecho said:
So, I decided to get an Intel AX210 card instead.
Click to expand...
Intel-branded is good, that will work under FreeBSD. Just keep in mind, you'll only get G-speeds, because that's what FreeBSD supports. Well, G-speeds max out at 54 MB/sec as theoretical capacity, in practice Github won't let you download stuff at rates faster than 5 MB/sec, and even surf web cams don't exactly broadcast in 4K HD. It would take bittorrent to get anywhere close to even 25 MB/sec.

Also, I can suggest that OP simply disable EFI boot in the BIOS. FreeBSD should be capable of booting that. Basically, I'd suggest the following steps:
  1. Create a USB install stick (I can assume that's already done)
  2. Test-boot that stick on another machine, not the one where you plan to install. If the installer boots, great, that means the stick is usable.
  3. Disable EFI booting on the Frame.works laptop. That should be possible even in the buggy BIOS of FW.
  4. Boot the stick on the FW laptop.
BTW, the difference between EFI and non-EFI booting is shown through the FreeBSD logo at the screen where you boot kernels/installers. With EFI, you'll get a nice, shiny-looking red sphere. Non-EFI means you'll see ASCII art for the logo.
 
So, in another thread, it was posted that you need to disable "Secure Boot", I'm not familiar with that; last time I was in laptop BIOses that wasn't a thing.

But I'm at a FreeBSD Install screen, so progress!
 
Alrighty, I'm up and running KDE Plasma 6 now. So, laptop is further along to use as a desktop replacement (=

I just need to figure how to make the screen saver/power mode come back when it blacks the screen after a few minutes.

Progress (=
 
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