vlc vs mplayer vs mpv vs other?

I think that OP should just compile VLC from ports, with every single knob turned on. I do that. And I discovered that if I do that, VLC is capable of playing anything, no need to research other players and features 😤 It can even stream from the box to your phone or let you use your phone as a wifi-based remote!
 
I think that OP should just compile VLC from ports, with every single knob turned on. I do that. And I discovered that if I do that, VLC is capable of playing anything, no need to research other players and features 😤 It can even stream from the box to your phone or let you use your phone as a wifi-based remote!
For most users watching common media in English this is basically true. The issue with VLC (and most every other media player regardless of OS) is real time rendering of subtitles that offer features beyond simple text+timing (.srt).

The appropriately named ASS format (an evolution of the old SubStation Alpha (.ssa) format) is well...ass. While it does allow for some very advanced typesetting to do things like overlay signs in real-time on top of video and do advanced text effects (e.g. fonts, colors, weights, position) rendering is broken on a variety of players in common use (including VLC) or very slow (most Windows players). Without getting too far into the weeds here mpv is basically the only player that renders such subtitles correctly in this admittedly broken standard. But that's what everyone agreed on targeting years ago because it was all we had. So use continues today even by large publishers.

While mpv and libass have their problems at least they can both render the subtitles correctly and not bring a high-end system to its knees while doing it.

The situation is so dire the W3C along with the larger streaming companies got together and tried to come up with a new standard called TTML. But it already has two versions (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timed_Text_Markup_Language) and almost no one is using it. Since almost no devices or software support it out of the box. So use of .ass continues.

So if you don't care about subtitles yes VLC will probably work fine for you 99% of the time. But if you're in that 1% (and a lot of people are now) it will cause issues and no one producing such content will listen to your pleas to have it fixed. They will simply direct you to use mpv or something based upon it. Don't ask me why things are like this. It has been like this since the 90s. I don't know why a certain segment of multimedia producers/providers feel the need to continue using this horrible standard.

The good news is Kodi and most popular set-top boxes have started to standardized around mpv or offer it as an option. Which mostly solves the problem when providing such content to the less technically inclined. I personally also offer the option of .srt as a fall-back in media I produce when possible. But there are very few people that do that. So your best bet is to just use mpv or something based upon it.

I do apologize for being verbose. VLC has its share of other problems related to codec support. I understand why people like it because it offers an all-in-one set-up with little configuration. If it works for you great. Just understand that no one "upstream" in content production is going to care if you send in reports of it rendering things incorrectly. That's been a long standing tradition going back decades now.
 
So if you don't care about subtitles yes VLC will probably work fine for you 99% of the time. But if you're in that 1% (and a lot of people are now) it will cause issues and no one producing such content will listen to your pleas to have it fixed. They will simply direct you to use mpv or something based upon it. Don't ask me why things are like this. It has been like this since the 90s. I don't know why a certain segment of multimedia producers/providers feel the need to continue using this horrible standard.
I do care about subtitles - and I do know that sometimes subtitles don't render great. But what I'm discovering is that it often boils down to file format and properly specifying how it gets rendered.

I've seen animes with pretty crappy-looking subtitles. They appear crappy no matter which player I use. And yes, I know the difference between hard (embedded) subtitles (like in .avi/mp4 files) and soft subs (like in .mkv files). I've been on the scene, learning to appreciate what makes good vs crappy subtitles for a while, since 2003. And things have improved for even real-time subtitling, and no, it doesn't take a very beefy machine any more.

Once again, if you think VLC doesn't support some kind of newer codec or renders some subtitles improperly - that's because your copy has been compiled without proper support for them. FreeBSD and other packagers tend to prepare pre-compiled stuff with very minimal options. I had problems with such conservative approaches on Linux, but only after coming to FreeBSD, was I able to turn on support for EVERYTHING, and have it work like a champ.

At this point, it's easier to continue this debate with screenshots of crappy sub rendering vs. good samples.
 
vlc doesnt have support for http headers
like user-agent, referer or cookies which mpv does
It does, just turn on the streaming server (provided you compiled VLC with that option in ports!)

The streaming server may have a dependency tree of its own, remember to turn EVERYTHING on ;)
 
Every time I try Kodi on a crippled computer (Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Chromestick) I get video and audio out of sync. Not inspiring confidence.
 
Every time I try Kodi on a crippled computer (Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Chromestick) I get video and audio out of sync. Not inspiring confidence.
Yeah, and that's why I stick with VLC no matter the platform (Apple, Win, Mac, whatever). VideoLAN devs seem to have figured something out, after all... 🤷‍♂️
 
my bad

the man page for vlc doesnt mention user-agent and referrer
but it is listed with the following command

Code:
vlc --longhelp --advanced

Code:
 HTTPS input (access)
      --http-continuous, --no-http-continuous
                                 Continuous stream
                                 (default disabled)
      --http-forward-cookies, --no-http-forward-cookies
                                 Cookies forwarding
                                 (default enabled)
      --http-referrer <string>   Referrer
      --http-user-agent <string> User agent

i used to used mpv and vlc as external players for kodi
and kodi has some urls that sometimes require a custom http header

vlc doesnt support custom http headers whereas mpv does
that was the issue

 
Every time I try Kodi on a crippled computer (Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Chromestick) I get video and audio out of sync. Not inspiring confidence.

You can set mpv to be the default player for kodi
for both local files and internet streams

not sure about set top boxes if you can install mpv,
but works with a regular computer or a raspberrry pi

create the playercorefactory.xml at this location

Code:
~/.kodi/userdata/playercorefactory.xml

with this code

Code:
<playercorefactory>
 <players>
   <player name="mpv" type="ExternalPlayer" audio="false" video="true">
    <filename>mpv</filename>
     <args>"{0}"</args>
     <hidexbmc>true</hidexbmc>
   </player>
 </players>
 <rules action="overwrite">
   <rule internetstream="true" player="mpv"></rule>
   <rule video="true" player="mpv"></rule>
 </rules>
</playercorefactory>

open a video file or link on kodi and it will play with mpv

my kodi videos which i had to take down from youtube

they kept getting removed 7 years after i uploaded them
and then youtube would give me a strike as well

 
On an Apple TV?
i was just re edit the post above, but you beat me to the punch
bit like the tyson fight

to say not sure about apple tv

another thing you can do is multicast a video from kodi to all the devices on your network


 
On an Apple TV?
Getting Kodi running on modern Apple TVs is an exercise in frustration if you don't already own an Apple computer+yearly Xcode subscription. Assuming you have it running there is an mpv renderer. If you don't your best bet is Infuse. Which is just a fancy GUI for mpv and it will nag you for money ($12 a year and/or $100 for "lifetime" sub) to render most common audio codecs that aren't AAC, mp3 and opus. That said, while I haven't given them any money I've been using it for awhile on the one Apple TV I have and it has worked well for everything. It plays anything from my NAS fine provided the audio codec isn't something like E-AC3 or something. I typically just transcode the audio for those files over to Opus since the device is just hooked up to an old HDTV with hdmi and is playing the audio through the TV speakers.

Kodi runs fine on most devices I've used it on. My friend uses it on an Xbox One to access my media server. It only craps out when rendering full screen signs when he's watching anime. But that's mainly due to the fact that third party applications from the app store like KODI aren't given full access to the CPU/GPU. I can't remember speifics now but I know it's forced to do everything on one CPU core. So video+audio rendering combined with advanced subtitles effects cause it to crap out for a few frames now and again.


I do care about subtitles - and I do know that sometimes subtitles don't render great. But what I'm discovering is that it often boils down to file format and properly specifying how it gets rendered.

It has more to do with what features of the ASS standard are being used and the renderer installed on the end user's machine. I can eaisly make most consumer devices and software players lag down to 1fps using simple fullscreen overlays and the most simple fonts with no effects. This isn't an uncommon situation either. A lot of shows require doing stuff like that to translate full screen signs and other things important to the plot. It gets even worse when you need to translate multiple signs that are moving and important to the plot.

no, it doesn't take a very beefy machine any more.

A high end CPU from the last 2 years will crap out even with a simple full screen sign that's not moving if you're using most common media players. Even with the latest and greatest (libass) you have to be very careful. Hence why commercial streaming companies still default to very simple fonts+effects and do the bare minimum. They could do better and use more advanced features (it's going to lag the end users machine anyway) but they prefer to churn out the episodes as fast as possible for the least amount of money and time. They don't even hire people that know the language well anymore. But that's another rant for another time (the industry is really bad).

Once again, if you think VLC doesn't support some kind of newer codec or renders some subtitles improperly - that's because your copy has been compiled without proper support for them.

C'mon man I do this professinally. I know the ins and outs of the different platforms I'm targetting and the various bugs within each. That's all I was trying to make people aware of: If you have an issue rendering something in VLC don't bother crying to the content provider. They will not care. The reason they won't care is the VLC guys do not care. A quick glance at the list of bug reports and the way they treat people attempting to report and fix them is proof enough of that. The VLC project has been horrible for 15-20 years now from both the end user and developer side of things. Which is why most of us gave up long ago on it becoming any better.

The only benefit VLC ever offered was the fact that it bundled in every codec and library needed. So the end user didn't have to screw around with installing codecs and setting up rendering and all the other stuff that (used to be) a huge pain. But we have better tools now like ffmpeg and codec support isn't the issue it once was. You're far better off using system wide codecs and libraries and something like mpv (or mpc-hc on Window) to render your conent with them. The codecs are more likely to work correctly and the UI is far better.

It would take me hours to go point-by-point on VLC bugs and issues in detail. I prefer not to do it. Anyone that's interested can go look at the bug tracker or the hundreds of thousands of posts on the internet going back decades for the various problems. There are plenty of 16+ year bugs in VLC that will never be fixed because the maintainers refuse to let anyone fix them. They prefer to engage in a holy war with everyone else and add in more and more "features" that will stay half broken until the end of time. It isn't good software and I'm willing to argue until the end of time that it never was.

This doesn't mean mpv doesn't suffer from similar problems development wise. But at least bugs do get fixed and you get your choice of countless GUIs built on top of it if you need something beyond the basic UI that it offers. It's also much eaiser to fix it should something go wrong or you discover it isn't rendering something correctly. It's also "the standard" for people producuing content. Meaning; If you report to me that something I produced is broken in mpv I'm very likely to take you serious and either fix the media file itself or more likely file a bug report with the mpv guys where I can expect collaberation and for it to be fixed in a timely manner. If you tell me VLC isn't playing nice I'm just going to tell you good luck and to try another media player (any media player).

But if it works for you more power to you. I don't really care what you're using to consume media. Lots of people still like Quicktime and Windows media player to for reasons I'll never understand.
 
A lot of shows require doing stuff like that to translate full screen signs and other things important to the plot. It gets even worse when you need to translate multiple signs that are moving and important to the plot.
C'mon man I do this professinally. I know the ins and outs of the different platforms I'm targetting and the various bugs within each.
This is funny, because unpaid amateur subtitling groups have figured out how to do subtitling, far better than paid professionals at producer studios! And tools for that are even available in ports of every BSD!

And proof is in the output: on forums dedicated to animes, people have a very clear preference towards subtitles produced by well-known amateur groups that use Open Source tools and whatever hardware they can afford.

A high end CPU from the last 2 years will crap out even with a simple full screen sign that's not moving if you're using most common media players.
It won't, I have several devices with old, low-end CPUs, they play even 1080 stuff fine. And VLC plays it better than system-provided stuff. Are you talking about Windows Media Player that was written for WinXP, or what?

High-end power matters when editing the stuff, not playing it back.
If you have an issue rendering something in VLC don't bother crying to the content provider. They will not care. The reason they won't care is the VLC guys do not care. A quick glance at the list of bug reports and the way they treat people attempting to report and fix them is proof enough of that. The VLC project has been horrible for 15-20 years now from both the end user and developer side of things. Which is why most of us gave up long ago on it becoming any better.
I stopped paying attention to VLC bugs decades ago, because all this time, I never had a showstopper on VLC that was bad enough to research player bugs. Just pay attention to movie file size and resolution, and you'll be fine. I do tend towards 480p if I can catch them.

If I don't like how subtitles from one group look, I usually can find same content from a different subtitler group...

🤣
 
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